8 ms·

Lots of low hanging fruit in this arena for people who haven't made a serious effort yet. Cutting out caffeine and alcohol entirely from my diet were by far the

Lots of low hanging fruit in this arena for people who haven't made a serious effort yet. Cutting out caffeine and alcohol entirely from my diet were by far the biggest improvements I made, then regular exercise, and finally a midday nap during my lunch break.

twh270 3y ago
That's a good list (though I personally find it impossible to nap during the day). I'd add one thing: reduce stress.
wombat-man 3y ago
Yeah, I sleep way better if I go to bed totally sober. Generally caffeine seems to be ok if I stop after 3pm or so.
- nick222226 3y ago
  Yep, as I get into my 30s I notice alcohol consumption drastically affects my sleep quality and time to fall asleep. I've also cut out coffee and that has helped my sinuses/upper throat a lot in the morning which were being irritated. I drink some varieties of tea instead.
manmal 3y ago
I‘m intrigued by the midday nap, because I think I remember reading that daytime naps worsen night sleep. I do like naps though, and find them refreshing. Have you found research that supports this?
- beezlebroxxxxxx 3y ago
  The primary benefit from mid-day naps is that they simply help you relax and get some rest. You don't want them to be long, just refreshing. This is well known in athletics where most major athletes take naps as a matter of recovery and to improve their sleep quality. Presumably, feeling relaxed and rested when you go to sleep helps you get some deeper sleep and improve sleep quality.
- 2devnull 3y ago
  Naps are terrible sleep hygiene. Any deviation from a regular set sleep schedule is bad hygiene. Better to get less sleep than to nap and disturb the sleep schedule. Many people develop insomnia this way, especially shift workers.
  - kaba0 3y ago
    It’s almost like we are not some robots with scheduled downtimes - physiology is much more complicated than to have such a mathematical truths. The only true thing we can conclude is always: this factor might correspond to this effect (and sometimes may even say that it is not only correlation)
  - dev_hugepages 3y ago
    The siesta is natural and is different from the naps taken from shift workers that are likely either interrupting night time sleep or are shifting their circadian rythm so that their "biological night" is in the day. Same thing for the "biological day" (it will be put at night) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siesta?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siesta?wprov=sfla1
- musha68k 3y ago
  AFAIR was only the case if nap was longer than ~20 min? I don't remember if this was a consistent thing, I doubt it though as this stuff is inherently individual. Experimentation is the only way with sleep optimization..
- jlpom 3y ago
  It does not worsen night sleep, this is a misconception. It is better than nothing but often not as good as regular sleep since you often does not goes through a full cycle.
- dev_hugepages 3y ago
  I recommend to read https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Best_time_for_napping https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Best_time_for_napping The key takeaways is that naps won't affect night time sleep much if it's timed well. I also don't recommend stopping them artificially (I've heard the "keep them short" advice a lot), naps are usually short if you aren't sleep deprived and time it well.
leetrout 3y ago
Similar for me. I'll add that I take a small magnesium supplement mid to late afternoon as well which helps me relax and if dreams are any indication of deeper sleep I have many more memorable dreams when I'm taking magnesium.
- JoshTko 3y ago
  What form of magnesium?
  - DrThunder 3y ago
    I use a powdered drink called 'Calm'. It's got a bit of a berry flavor to it. Start with a small amount though or you'll be shitting your pants. There are a lot of studies showing magnesium levels are far too low in people anyway so it's a good idea to supplement it.
  - willseth 3y ago
    Magnesium glycinate is typically recommended, but any form that doesn't upset your stomach is probably good.
    - TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
      Magnesium L-Threonate (a.k.a. magtein) supposedly crosses the blood-brain barrier better than any other form of magnesium.
      - greenbush 3y ago
        I've read that Magnesium L-Threonate is better taken in the morning to help your brain function better during the day. So, I take this in the morning and Mg glycinate at night.
  - leetrout 3y ago
    I currently use magnesium oxide in a tablet form (I use half a tablet, ~125mg). I have previously used magnesium glycinate but I don't remember what dose I used of that. I'll add, the mag oxide always prevents leg cramps when I take a full tablet (250mg) when I am working outside all day (and staying hydrated). ETA: In my experience magnesium citrate is the one mostly likely to cause diarrhea though they all can.
1970-01-01 3y ago
Its not so straightforward. Caffeine consumption has been shown to reduce the chance of dementia. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7836063/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7836063/
- shlant 3y ago
  1. Can't be sure that the effect of caffeine is more worth it than the possible impact on sleep. Better sleep probably has a wider range of benefits compared to caffeine. 2. Might not have to be one or the other - just make sure caffeine consumption is very early in the day
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Almondsetat 3y ago
  All these studies seem like cope. You drink coffee because it makes you do more things at work / you are a slob without it because of addiction. You are not drinking it because it might make you better in bed or have less dementia in 50 years. On the other hand we all need to sleep so doing it properly is a net positive
  - brigadier132 3y ago
    Caffeine is really not unhealthy. It's one of the most studied supplements ever. If you drink one cup of coffee before noon you will be perfectly fine.
    - Almondsetat 3y ago
      >if you drink one cup If you only shoot heroin once a week you will be perfectly fine How many people resist the urge and only shoot heroin once a week? We are humans, not perfectly diligent robots. The first thing you say to a person with eating disorders is to throw all the junk food from their home. It’s close to impossible to resist even the “simple” temptation of food. It’s much easier for a person to never start drinking coffee in the morning to “wake up” than starting and then quitting
Ironlikebike 3y ago
I have always had insomnia and have to maintain very good sleep hygiene. Here's a few things I have found that help me get to sleep: - No exercise after 18:30/6:30pm - Absolutely avoid Vitamin D and Vitamin B supplements in the evening. These will suppress deep and REM sleep and I'll sleep lightly all night long if I take them. - Hot sauna, shower, or bath before bed. - Anti-histamine (cetirizine hydrochloride aka Zyrtec) as needed - I'm allergic to my wife's dog and some nights I feel like I have bugs crawling on my skin. It can even wake me up. Things that keep me from waking up at night: - Gas X as needed to avoid acid reflux - Anti Inflammatory helps keep me from having to use the bathroom when I know I'm inflamed (getting old sucks). - No alcohol in the evening - No videogames, interesting books, or French lessons right before bed, or I'll be sleeping lightly and find myself ruminating in light sleep over these mentally engaging topics.
- iamdbtoo 3y ago
  Would you mind sharing what you take for the anti-inflammatory? Do you take it daily?
  - Ironlikebike 3y ago
    I take Ibuprofen, and only when I can tell there is a problem (like when I've been up several times on preceding nights). It also seems correlated with junk food and alcohol. I generally have a very clean diet, and if I slip, I generally feel like I have inflammation a few days later which keeps me up at night when I wake up needing to go.
- appplication 3y ago
  No alcohol or weed in the evening is critical for me. Either after about 5pm completely ruins my sleep.
  - MrDrMcCoy 3y ago
    I on the other hand can't get to sleep without weed, and that's my sole purpose for consuming it.
bogota 3y ago
Im jealous of anyone who can sleep well. I have been doing all of the above for years as well as testing out different temperatures and also not looking at screens for well over an hour before going to bed. I just can’t get good consistent deep sleep. I will say one thing that did help was i use to live in the city and after i moved outside of it and it was much much quieter at night (no trucks driving through or random sounds or honking in the middle of the night) i did notice an improvement.
- Jedd 3y ago
  Urban sounds are a big problem for me as well, but you may want to try a white noise generator (phone app or even a small low-power fan) to hide some of those noises. The fan for me doubles as a way of getting air circulation. I keep windows open in other rooms, but not the bedroom - due to street noises. Having a CO2 monitor may give you some insights into another key factor impacting your sleep quality.
- mirekrusin 3y ago
  Start taking GlyNAC and see how you feel after a week or two. It's crazy nobody is recommending it but me here.
  - inerte 3y ago
    I might want to try! Do you have a particular product / brand you use that’s convenient to buy? I saw another comment of your mentioning then separated, is that how you take it?
    - mirekrusin 3y ago
      Yes, I'm taking Glycine in powder (it's very cheap) from Vitality (UltraPure Glycine) and NAC from Chrisana - but I'm based in Switzerland. You should be able to find it anywhere, I'd think any brand would do just like any brand of vitamine C is likely ok.
  - 0xcafefood 3y ago
    NAC can have a number of surprising side effects for some, including anhedonia. Just be aware of the possibility before beginning to supplement it.
spelunker 3y ago
The biggest improvement for me by far was a CPAP.
- alostpuppy 3y ago
  Same! If you have poor sleep, it couldn’t hurt to see a sleep doc.
- blinding-streak 3y ago
  CPAP nade a profound difference for me. Cognitively and physically.
- musha68k 3y ago
  Could you elaborate? Are you talking about this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_positive_airway_pressure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_positive_airway_pre...
  - inerte 3y ago
    Not OP but given the context, yeah. CPAP machines help you breathe better and not wake up hundreds of times due to respiratory blockage. It’s almost a necessity for fat or muscular people to sleep really well.
    - Lakuma 3y ago
      I'm 145 lbs and use a CPAP because my nasal turbinates majorly swell up during the night or when I lay down. I'm urging my insurance company to cover the ClariFix procedure to hopefully fix my issue.
  - m463 3y ago
    yes, it helps with sleep apnea that many older people eventually develop. You can sleep apnea it even if you don't snore. getting a cpap can be a life changer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_apnea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_apnea
musha68k 3y ago
I agree, it's hard but worth it. I have the data to back it up through sleep tracking. I've always felt somewhat unfazed by coffee, yet caffeine flashbacks can be very subtle and do seem to have a measurable impact on this "user" at least. Also really darkening the bedroom and keeping the temperature as low as possible. Now if there only were a consistent solution for energetic "night owl" toddlers to go with that ever more optimized regimen :D
alistairSH 3y ago
Just seconding many of the suggestions so far... - no alcohol after dinner (none at all is better) - eat dinner as early as possible (before 7pm, even earlier is better) - turn off screens after 9pm (Kindle doesn't seem to impact, but phone/tablet/TV do) - exercise regularly, but not too close to bedtime - regular bed time and wake time (we go to bedroom 9:30-10, lights out 10:30, alarm at 6am). Meditation and breathing exercise can help too, but I haven't had to try those much.
VirusNewbie 3y ago
>Cutting out caffeine and alcohol entirely from my diet were by far the biggest improvements I made Are you sure the latter improved deep sleep? Alcohol is known to interfere with REM sleep, but I've actually found it lengthens the amount of time I spend in deep sleep if I have a single beer or something at dinner. I tracked this over months with a sleep tracker.
rpmisms 3y ago
I sleep too deeply. 1oz of liquor immediately before sleep makes me able to comprehend alarms in the morning.
- hiAndrewQuinn 3y ago
  That sounds like the opposite of sleeping too deeply to me. That sounds like you aren't getting enough. Do yourself a favor. Take off the nightcap, put on the striped pajamas and the old-timey candle holder, and book out a full 10 hours for a few weeks. Make it non-negotiable. Full darkness, clean air, quiet, the works. Maybe even get tested for sleep apnea if you're overweight. If you go through that for 3 weeks religiously and return to the nightcap I'll eat my words and consider you a medical anomaly. But I think you'll come out of it convinced it's worth the sacrifice.
  - rpmisms 3y ago
    Been there, I just sleep a full 10 hours and can't fall asleep the next night. I sleep 7 hours, that's the right amount for me. If I don't feel like drinking, I'll eat something heavy to lighten my sleep quality. I obsessively track my sleep, and this is all I've found so far. The other option is polyphasic, but that's limited in terms of practicality.

twh270 3y ago

That's a good list (though I personally find it impossible to nap during the day). I'd add one thing: reduce stress.

wombat-man 3y ago

Yeah, I sleep way better if I go to bed totally sober. Generally caffeine seems to be ok if I stop after 3pm or so.

nick222226 3y ago
Yep, as I get into my 30s I notice alcohol consumption drastically affects my sleep quality and time to fall asleep. I've also cut out coffee and that has helped my sinuses/upper throat a lot in the morning which were being irritated. I drink some varieties of tea instead.

manmal 3y ago

I‘m intrigued by the midday nap, because I think I remember reading that daytime naps worsen night sleep. I do like naps though, and find them refreshing. Have you found research that supports this?

beezlebroxxxxxx 3y ago
The primary benefit from mid-day naps is that they simply help you relax and get some rest. You don't want them to be long, just refreshing. This is well known in athletics where most major athletes take naps as a matter of recovery and to improve their sleep quality. Presumably, feeling relaxed and rested when you go to sleep helps you get some deeper sleep and improve sleep quality.
2devnull 3y ago
Naps are terrible sleep hygiene. Any deviation from a regular set sleep schedule is bad hygiene. Better to get less sleep than to nap and disturb the sleep schedule. Many people develop insomnia this way, especially shift workers.
- kaba0 3y ago
  It’s almost like we are not some robots with scheduled downtimes - physiology is much more complicated than to have such a mathematical truths. The only true thing we can conclude is always: this factor might correspond to this effect (and sometimes may even say that it is not only correlation)
- dev_hugepages 3y ago
  The siesta is natural and is different from the naps taken from shift workers that are likely either interrupting night time sleep or are shifting their circadian rythm so that their "biological night" is in the day. Same thing for the "biological day" (it will be put at night) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siesta?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siesta?wprov=sfla1
musha68k 3y ago
AFAIR was only the case if nap was longer than ~20 min? I don't remember if this was a consistent thing, I doubt it though as this stuff is inherently individual. Experimentation is the only way with sleep optimization..
jlpom 3y ago
It does not worsen night sleep, this is a misconception. It is better than nothing but often not as good as regular sleep since you often does not goes through a full cycle.
dev_hugepages 3y ago
I recommend to read https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Best_time_for_napping https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Best_time_for_napping The key takeaways is that naps won't affect night time sleep much if it's timed well. I also don't recommend stopping them artificially (I've heard the "keep them short" advice a lot), naps are usually short if you aren't sleep deprived and time it well.

leetrout 3y ago

Similar for me. I'll add that I take a small magnesium supplement mid to late afternoon as well which helps me relax and if dreams are any indication of deeper sleep I have many more memorable dreams when I'm taking magnesium.

JoshTko 3y ago
What form of magnesium?
- DrThunder 3y ago
  I use a powdered drink called 'Calm'. It's got a bit of a berry flavor to it. Start with a small amount though or you'll be shitting your pants. There are a lot of studies showing magnesium levels are far too low in people anyway so it's a good idea to supplement it.
- willseth 3y ago
  Magnesium glycinate is typically recommended, but any form that doesn't upset your stomach is probably good.
  - TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
    Magnesium L-Threonate (a.k.a. magtein) supposedly crosses the blood-brain barrier better than any other form of magnesium.
    - greenbush 3y ago
      I've read that Magnesium L-Threonate is better taken in the morning to help your brain function better during the day. So, I take this in the morning and Mg glycinate at night.
- leetrout 3y ago
  I currently use magnesium oxide in a tablet form (I use half a tablet, ~125mg). I have previously used magnesium glycinate but I don't remember what dose I used of that. I'll add, the mag oxide always prevents leg cramps when I take a full tablet (250mg) when I am working outside all day (and staying hydrated). ETA: In my experience magnesium citrate is the one mostly likely to cause diarrhea though they all can.

1970-01-01 3y ago

Its not so straightforward. Caffeine consumption has been shown to reduce the chance of dementia. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7836063/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7836063/

shlant 3y ago
1. Can't be sure that the effect of caffeine is more worth it than the possible impact on sleep. Better sleep probably has a wider range of benefits compared to caffeine. 2. Might not have to be one or the other - just make sure caffeine consumption is very early in the day
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Almondsetat 3y ago
All these studies seem like cope. You drink coffee because it makes you do more things at work / you are a slob without it because of addiction. You are not drinking it because it might make you better in bed or have less dementia in 50 years. On the other hand we all need to sleep so doing it properly is a net positive
- brigadier132 3y ago
  Caffeine is really not unhealthy. It's one of the most studied supplements ever. If you drink one cup of coffee before noon you will be perfectly fine.
  - Almondsetat 3y ago
    >if you drink one cup If you only shoot heroin once a week you will be perfectly fine How many people resist the urge and only shoot heroin once a week? We are humans, not perfectly diligent robots. The first thing you say to a person with eating disorders is to throw all the junk food from their home. It’s close to impossible to resist even the “simple” temptation of food. It’s much easier for a person to never start drinking coffee in the morning to “wake up” than starting and then quitting

Ironlikebike 3y ago

I have always had insomnia and have to maintain very good sleep hygiene. Here's a few things I have found that help me get to sleep: - No exercise after 18:30/6:30pm - Absolutely avoid Vitamin D and Vitamin B supplements in the evening. These will suppress deep and REM sleep and I'll sleep lightly all night long if I take them. - Hot sauna, shower, or bath before bed. - Anti-histamine (cetirizine hydrochloride aka Zyrtec) as needed - I'm allergic to my wife's dog and some nights I feel like I have bugs crawling on my skin. It can even wake me up. Things that keep me from waking up at night: - Gas X as needed to avoid acid reflux - Anti Inflammatory helps keep me from having to use the bathroom when I know I'm inflamed (getting old sucks). - No alcohol in the evening - No videogames, interesting books, or French lessons right before bed, or I'll be sleeping lightly and find myself ruminating in light sleep over these mentally engaging topics.

iamdbtoo 3y ago
Would you mind sharing what you take for the anti-inflammatory? Do you take it daily?
- Ironlikebike 3y ago
  I take Ibuprofen, and only when I can tell there is a problem (like when I've been up several times on preceding nights). It also seems correlated with junk food and alcohol. I generally have a very clean diet, and if I slip, I generally feel like I have inflammation a few days later which keeps me up at night when I wake up needing to go.
appplication 3y ago
No alcohol or weed in the evening is critical for me. Either after about 5pm completely ruins my sleep.
- MrDrMcCoy 3y ago
  I on the other hand can't get to sleep without weed, and that's my sole purpose for consuming it.

bogota 3y ago

Im jealous of anyone who can sleep well. I have been doing all of the above for years as well as testing out different temperatures and also not looking at screens for well over an hour before going to bed. I just can’t get good consistent deep sleep. I will say one thing that did help was i use to live in the city and after i moved outside of it and it was much much quieter at night (no trucks driving through or random sounds or honking in the middle of the night) i did notice an improvement.

Jedd 3y ago
Urban sounds are a big problem for me as well, but you may want to try a white noise generator (phone app or even a small low-power fan) to hide some of those noises. The fan for me doubles as a way of getting air circulation. I keep windows open in other rooms, but not the bedroom - due to street noises. Having a CO2 monitor may give you some insights into another key factor impacting your sleep quality.
mirekrusin 3y ago
Start taking GlyNAC and see how you feel after a week or two. It's crazy nobody is recommending it but me here.
- inerte 3y ago
  I might want to try! Do you have a particular product / brand you use that’s convenient to buy? I saw another comment of your mentioning then separated, is that how you take it?
  - mirekrusin 3y ago
    Yes, I'm taking Glycine in powder (it's very cheap) from Vitality (UltraPure Glycine) and NAC from Chrisana - but I'm based in Switzerland. You should be able to find it anywhere, I'd think any brand would do just like any brand of vitamine C is likely ok.
- 0xcafefood 3y ago
  NAC can have a number of surprising side effects for some, including anhedonia. Just be aware of the possibility before beginning to supplement it.

spelunker 3y ago

The biggest improvement for me by far was a CPAP.

alostpuppy 3y ago
Same! If you have poor sleep, it couldn’t hurt to see a sleep doc.
blinding-streak 3y ago
CPAP nade a profound difference for me. Cognitively and physically.
musha68k 3y ago
Could you elaborate? Are you talking about this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_positive_airway_pressure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_positive_airway_pre...
- inerte 3y ago
  Not OP but given the context, yeah. CPAP machines help you breathe better and not wake up hundreds of times due to respiratory blockage. It’s almost a necessity for fat or muscular people to sleep really well.
  - Lakuma 3y ago
    I'm 145 lbs and use a CPAP because my nasal turbinates majorly swell up during the night or when I lay down. I'm urging my insurance company to cover the ClariFix procedure to hopefully fix my issue.
- m463 3y ago
  yes, it helps with sleep apnea that many older people eventually develop. You can sleep apnea it even if you don't snore. getting a cpap can be a life changer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_apnea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_apnea

musha68k 3y ago

I agree, it's hard but worth it. I have the data to back it up through sleep tracking. I've always felt somewhat unfazed by coffee, yet caffeine flashbacks can be very subtle and do seem to have a measurable impact on this "user" at least. Also really darkening the bedroom and keeping the temperature as low as possible. Now if there only were a consistent solution for energetic "night owl" toddlers to go with that ever more optimized regimen :D

alistairSH 3y ago

Just seconding many of the suggestions so far... - no alcohol after dinner (none at all is better) - eat dinner as early as possible (before 7pm, even earlier is better) - turn off screens after 9pm (Kindle doesn't seem to impact, but phone/tablet/TV do) - exercise regularly, but not too close to bedtime - regular bed time and wake time (we go to bedroom 9:30-10, lights out 10:30, alarm at 6am). Meditation and breathing exercise can help too, but I haven't had to try those much.

VirusNewbie 3y ago

>Cutting out caffeine and alcohol entirely from my diet were by far the biggest improvements I made Are you sure the latter improved deep sleep? Alcohol is known to interfere with REM sleep, but I've actually found it lengthens the amount of time I spend in deep sleep if I have a single beer or something at dinner. I tracked this over months with a sleep tracker.

rpmisms 3y ago

I sleep too deeply. 1oz of liquor immediately before sleep makes me able to comprehend alarms in the morning.

hiAndrewQuinn 3y ago
That sounds like the opposite of sleeping too deeply to me. That sounds like you aren't getting enough. Do yourself a favor. Take off the nightcap, put on the striped pajamas and the old-timey candle holder, and book out a full 10 hours for a few weeks. Make it non-negotiable. Full darkness, clean air, quiet, the works. Maybe even get tested for sleep apnea if you're overweight. If you go through that for 3 weeks religiously and return to the nightcap I'll eat my words and consider you a medical anomaly. But I think you'll come out of it convinced it's worth the sacrifice.
- rpmisms 3y ago
  Been there, I just sleep a full 10 hours and can't fall asleep the next night. I sleep 7 hours, that's the right amount for me. If I don't feel like drinking, I'll eat something heavy to lighten my sleep quality. I obsessively track my sleep, and this is all I've found so far. The other option is polyphasic, but that's limited in terms of practicality.