3 ms·

If we're going to use single digit instances of sexual abuse to delegitimize things I'd love to know your feelings on the Catholic Church, Boy Scouts, and high

If we're going to use single digit instances of sexual abuse to delegitimize things I'd love to know your feelings on the Catholic Church, Boy Scouts, and high school sports teams.

coldtea 3y ago
Are those doing those things as legally mandated acts, or merely as illegal acts (some of which were eventually uncovered)? Because illegal abuse will probably always exist - some humans will treat others like craps, illegally. People still understand that those things are wrong. The act of putting actual perpetrators with a class of much less physically strong victims into the same confined space, however, points to specific mindset where doing wrong is thought as doing right, and not just by one or more wicked persons, but also with state power to support it.
- SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
  I'm confused, you think that the sexual assault in the jail was mandated and legal? Do you believe all the regular prison rape is legally mandated as well? > The act of putting actual perpetrators with a class of much less physically strong victims into the same confined space, however, points to specific mindset where doing wrong is thought as doing right, and not just by one or more wicked persons, but also with state power to support it. I'm fairly certain regular prisons don't sort by size either, and not all men or women are built the same.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    No, I believe that what the parent described is putting rape perpetrators in the same confined spaces with physically much weaker class of potential victims as "mandated and legal". >I'm fairly certain regular prisons they don't sort by size either, and not all men are built the same. Yes, so let's put women prisoners and biologically stronger male rapists together then, until we also seperate all prisoners by height and strength in the general case... AKA: there's bad happening already in prisons, so adding bad to it, even if it's a stupidly predictable to foresee and prevent bad, is fine!
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
      What is the rate of occurrence of trans women raping women in prison? What is the rate of occurrence of men raping trans women in prison? I'd argue that we need to actually look at the rate of occurrences for these things and not look at a NY Post article about a single occurrence and our own internal biases and intuition around "biological strength".
      - suoduandao3 3y ago
        I'd say the important question is, 'what is the rate of self-declared trans women raping cis women going to be once every man before a court figures out that he can get put into women's prison with a single unfalsifiable lie?'. Bad stuff happens in prison, we're all agreed, the issue I see is that a much worse outcome is entirely predictable but many people are afraid they're committing a hate crime unless they blind themselves to that eventuality. And the really important question is, "What else does this luxury belief require blindness to?"
        SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
        If the volume becomes sufficient why not put trans women with trans women? This is only a problem while the numbers are small so your scenario where this ends in a deluge of scheming rapists would backfire. > And the really important question is, "What else does this luxury belief require blindness to?" Good question - this whole conversation is based upon the idea that trans women aren't valid and if they are sexually assaulted in prison at a hugely higher rate (13x)[1] that's acceptable because we need to stop a hypothetical legion of rapists. [1] https://cpb-us-e2.wpmucdn.com/sites.uci.edu/dist/0/1149/files/2013/06/BulletinVol2Issue2.pdf https://cpb-us-e2.wpmucdn.com/sites.uci.edu/dist/0/1149/file...
        pelch 3y ago
        > this whole conversation is based upon the idea that trans women aren't valid Exactly. They aren't. A 'trans woman' is a type of man and needs to be treated as such when his demands and desires come into conflict with women's needs.

If we're going to use single digit instances of sexual abuse to delegitimize things I'd love to know your feelings on the Catholic Church, Boy Scouts, and high school sports teams.

coldtea 3y ago

Are those doing those things as legally mandated acts, or merely as illegal acts (some of which were eventually uncovered)? Because illegal abuse will probably always exist - some humans will treat others like craps, illegally. People still understand that those things are wrong. The act of putting actual perpetrators with a class of much less physically strong victims into the same confined space, however, points to specific mindset where doing wrong is thought as doing right, and not just by one or more wicked persons, but also with state power to support it.

SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
I'm confused, you think that the sexual assault in the jail was mandated and legal? Do you believe all the regular prison rape is legally mandated as well? > The act of putting actual perpetrators with a class of much less physically strong victims into the same confined space, however, points to specific mindset where doing wrong is thought as doing right, and not just by one or more wicked persons, but also with state power to support it. I'm fairly certain regular prisons don't sort by size either, and not all men or women are built the same.
- coldtea 3y ago
  No, I believe that what the parent described is putting rape perpetrators in the same confined spaces with physically much weaker class of potential victims as "mandated and legal". >I'm fairly certain regular prisons they don't sort by size either, and not all men are built the same. Yes, so let's put women prisoners and biologically stronger male rapists together then, until we also seperate all prisoners by height and strength in the general case... AKA: there's bad happening already in prisons, so adding bad to it, even if it's a stupidly predictable to foresee and prevent bad, is fine!
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
    What is the rate of occurrence of trans women raping women in prison? What is the rate of occurrence of men raping trans women in prison? I'd argue that we need to actually look at the rate of occurrences for these things and not look at a NY Post article about a single occurrence and our own internal biases and intuition around "biological strength".
    - suoduandao3 3y ago
      I'd say the important question is, 'what is the rate of self-declared trans women raping cis women going to be once every man before a court figures out that he can get put into women's prison with a single unfalsifiable lie?'. Bad stuff happens in prison, we're all agreed, the issue I see is that a much worse outcome is entirely predictable but many people are afraid they're committing a hate crime unless they blind themselves to that eventuality. And the really important question is, "What else does this luxury belief require blindness to?"
      - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
        If the volume becomes sufficient why not put trans women with trans women? This is only a problem while the numbers are small so your scenario where this ends in a deluge of scheming rapists would backfire. > And the really important question is, "What else does this luxury belief require blindness to?" Good question - this whole conversation is based upon the idea that trans women aren't valid and if they are sexually assaulted in prison at a hugely higher rate (13x)[1] that's acceptable because we need to stop a hypothetical legion of rapists. [1] https://cpb-us-e2.wpmucdn.com/sites.uci.edu/dist/0/1149/files/2013/06/BulletinVol2Issue2.pdf https://cpb-us-e2.wpmucdn.com/sites.uci.edu/dist/0/1149/file...
        pelch 3y ago
        > this whole conversation is based upon the idea that trans women aren't valid Exactly. They aren't. A 'trans woman' is a type of man and needs to be treated as such when his demands and desires come into conflict with women's needs.