3 ms·

I've seen this sentiment mentioned many times. That at school "abuse is more likely to be noticed". But how much more likely? How likely is noticed abuse to be

by yeck 3y ago

I've seen this sentiment mentioned many times. That at school "abuse is more likely to be noticed". But how much more likely? How likely is noticed abuse to be resolved in a meaningful way? As an anecdote I have close family member that teaches younger elementary school grades. They have told me about signs of possible abuse they've seen but no available recourse. I'm also aware that school is a also an environment where abuse occurs. How can we say that we are not exposing public school children to more abuse per capita than homeschooled? There is a school in my neighbourhood that often has the police called in. Lockdowns over students bringing in knives and attacking each other. It would be good to know these things if making an argument that pivots on abuse. One last anecdote. All the experiences I can remember having that I'd consider abuse occurred in either: school, work or public transit. Some were bad interactions with strangers in passing, other were more chronic (generally at school). While it is true terrible things can happen to kids at home, you need stats to compare this with the alternative before a stance should be taken.

vharuck 3y ago
>As an anecdote I have close family member that teaches younger elementary school grades. They have told me about signs of possible abuse they've seen but no available recourse. It's natural to want to stay out of things, especially if one doesn't know the procedure and worries about messing up a family's lives. But it's better for the people in charge of investigating cops abuse to decide the appropriate course. As for how reporting happens, it depends on the state. In mine (Pennsylvania), all school employees are made well aware they're considered "Mandated Reporters." They are legally required to report any suspicions of child abuse, either through the state's website, phone line, local police, or the county agency responsible for child abuse cases. The suspected abuse victim doesn't need to say they're being abused or anything at all, the reporter doesn't even have to guess who the abuser is. If the reporter thinks there may have been abuse because they saw or learned about physical (e.g. bruises) or behavioral (e.g. afraid to go home) signs, they have to report it. Not reporting can led to misdemeanor or felony charges for the Mandated Reporter. Somebody who reported their suspicion is immune from civil or criminal liability, and protected from retaliation from the institution they work at, for the report (unless it can be shown they're using reports maliciously). They're also tested as confidential informants in any investigation. The law also encourages "Permissive Reporters" to report suspected child abuse, but without threatening charges for not reporting. These reporters can do so anonymously. All this info comes from my wife, who was a daycare teacher, and DuckDuckGo-ing "Pennsylvania mandated reporters."
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  Those same Pennsylvanian school teachers turn a blind eye to the abuse that happens right in front of them in their own classrooms. The law may require them to report abuse but it can't actually force them to; the teachers just pretend they didn't see anything and there is no penalty for this because how can you prove the teacher recognized something? It's a farce.
  - vharuck 3y ago
    Do you have data to back your dismissal? Because when I looked, over 10,000 Pennsylvanian school employees reported suspected child abuse to the state in 2022 alone: https://www.dhs.pa.gov/docs/OCYF/Documents/2022-PA-CHILD-PROTECTIVE-SERVICES-REPORT_8-10-2023_FINAL.pdf https://www.dhs.pa.gov/docs/OCYF/Documents/2022-PA-CHILD-PRO... The number of substantiated (court ruling, protective order, etc) child abuse cases in 2022: around 5,000. No other group, including doctors, police officers, and Child Protective Services themselves, made more reports. Only around 6% of the school employees' reports were substantiated, making their reports least likely to be substantiated. This leads me to believe school employees have a lower threshold for reporting a suspicion compared to other groups.
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      > over 10,000 Pennsylvanian school employees reported suspected child abuse to the state in 2022 alone And they overlook 100x more students beating the shit out of each other. No, I won't cite it. I lived it, and I have relatives working in that system who say nothing has changed. BTW there are more than 100k school teachers in Pennsylvania. 10k reports a year represents about 1 in 10 teachers making a single report a year. I retract my 100x remark, it's far worse than that.

by yeck 3y ago

vharuck 3y ago

>As an anecdote I have close family member that teaches younger elementary school grades. They have told me about signs of possible abuse they've seen but no available recourse. It's natural to want to stay out of things, especially if one doesn't know the procedure and worries about messing up a family's lives. But it's better for the people in charge of investigating cops abuse to decide the appropriate course. As for how reporting happens, it depends on the state. In mine (Pennsylvania), all school employees are made well aware they're considered "Mandated Reporters." They are legally required to report any suspicions of child abuse, either through the state's website, phone line, local police, or the county agency responsible for child abuse cases. The suspected abuse victim doesn't need to say they're being abused or anything at all, the reporter doesn't even have to guess who the abuser is. If the reporter thinks there may have been abuse because they saw or learned about physical (e.g. bruises) or behavioral (e.g. afraid to go home) signs, they have to report it. Not reporting can led to misdemeanor or felony charges for the Mandated Reporter. Somebody who reported their suspicion is immune from civil or criminal liability, and protected from retaliation from the institution they work at, for the report (unless it can be shown they're using reports maliciously). They're also tested as confidential informants in any investigation. The law also encourages "Permissive Reporters" to report suspected child abuse, but without threatening charges for not reporting. These reporters can do so anonymously. All this info comes from my wife, who was a daycare teacher, and DuckDuckGo-ing "Pennsylvania mandated reporters."

mcpackieh 3y ago
Those same Pennsylvanian school teachers turn a blind eye to the abuse that happens right in front of them in their own classrooms. The law may require them to report abuse but it can't actually force them to; the teachers just pretend they didn't see anything and there is no penalty for this because how can you prove the teacher recognized something? It's a farce.
- vharuck 3y ago
  Do you have data to back your dismissal? Because when I looked, over 10,000 Pennsylvanian school employees reported suspected child abuse to the state in 2022 alone: https://www.dhs.pa.gov/docs/OCYF/Documents/2022-PA-CHILD-PROTECTIVE-SERVICES-REPORT_8-10-2023_FINAL.pdf https://www.dhs.pa.gov/docs/OCYF/Documents/2022-PA-CHILD-PRO... The number of substantiated (court ruling, protective order, etc) child abuse cases in 2022: around 5,000. No other group, including doctors, police officers, and Child Protective Services themselves, made more reports. Only around 6% of the school employees' reports were substantiated, making their reports least likely to be substantiated. This leads me to believe school employees have a lower threshold for reporting a suspicion compared to other groups.
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    > over 10,000 Pennsylvanian school employees reported suspected child abuse to the state in 2022 alone And they overlook 100x more students beating the shit out of each other. No, I won't cite it. I lived it, and I have relatives working in that system who say nothing has changed. BTW there are more than 100k school teachers in Pennsylvania. 10k reports a year represents about 1 in 10 teachers making a single report a year. I retract my 100x remark, it's far worse than that.