6 ms·

I'll bite again. My inner moral voice objects to putting male rapists in a female prison because they claim they are trans. No, that is not a strawman https://

I'll bite again. My inner moral voice objects to putting male rapists in a female prison because they claim they are trans. No, that is not a strawman https://nypost.com/2022/04/25/transgender-rikers-inmate-gets-7-years-for-raping-female-prisoner/ https://nypost.com/2022/04/25/transgender-rikers-inmate-gets...

ipaddr 3y ago
But you are okay with putting male rapists who rape out males with males? Or female rapists who rape other females with females? Your morality stops at protecting females against males?
- suoduandao3 3y ago
  My point is more that if this outcome wasn't entirely predictable to the people in the courts system who set this situation up, it's indicative of deeper problems with their assumptions. I'm happy to go into what I think those problems are (though it would be an essay) but a single shocking example is often enough to act as an intuition pump.
- coldtea 3y ago
  Even if their morality stops there, ot's a good first step to separate a natural class of physically more powerful rapists (men rapists), from a natural class of physically less powerful potential victims (women), no? Or should our morality stop at: "since we can't or don't protect everybody let's leave an obvious, extremely vulnerable, and much more common (male-> female rape vs male->male rape) victim class unprotected?"
- pelch 3y ago
  No-one is okay with any of this but it makes no sense whatsoever to try to solve a problem within men's prisons, i.e. men raping men, by moving some of these men to women's prisons. Women's prisons do not exist for the purpose of forcing women to be human shields against male-on-male sexual violence.
  - ipaddr 3y ago
    Women raping women was the other key point. You don't fix prisons by moving inmates. Having inmates socially interact with large groups of other inmates doesn't sound healthy or wise gender not withstanding. You can't put a group together who's only common interest is crime. Each criminal should be housed separately and socialized with trained pros who can help them work through why they are there. It would pay for itself when criminals don't return to crime. At least make it available for the last 6 months
SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
If we're going to use single digit instances of sexual abuse to delegitimize things I'd love to know your feelings on the Catholic Church, Boy Scouts, and high school sports teams.
- coldtea 3y ago
  Are those doing those things as legally mandated acts, or merely as illegal acts (some of which were eventually uncovered)? Because illegal abuse will probably always exist - some humans will treat others like craps, illegally. People still understand that those things are wrong. The act of putting actual perpetrators with a class of much less physically strong victims into the same confined space, however, points to specific mindset where doing wrong is thought as doing right, and not just by one or more wicked persons, but also with state power to support it.
  - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
    I'm confused, you think that the sexual assault in the jail was mandated and legal? Do you believe all the regular prison rape is legally mandated as well? > The act of putting actual perpetrators with a class of much less physically strong victims into the same confined space, however, points to specific mindset where doing wrong is thought as doing right, and not just by one or more wicked persons, but also with state power to support it. I'm fairly certain regular prisons don't sort by size either, and not all men or women are built the same.
    - coldtea 3y ago
      No, I believe that what the parent described is putting rape perpetrators in the same confined spaces with physically much weaker class of potential victims as "mandated and legal". >I'm fairly certain regular prisons they don't sort by size either, and not all men are built the same. Yes, so let's put women prisoners and biologically stronger male rapists together then, until we also seperate all prisoners by height and strength in the general case... AKA: there's bad happening already in prisons, so adding bad to it, even if it's a stupidly predictable to foresee and prevent bad, is fine!

ipaddr 3y ago

But you are okay with putting male rapists who rape out males with males? Or female rapists who rape other females with females? Your morality stops at protecting females against males?

suoduandao3 3y ago
My point is more that if this outcome wasn't entirely predictable to the people in the courts system who set this situation up, it's indicative of deeper problems with their assumptions. I'm happy to go into what I think those problems are (though it would be an essay) but a single shocking example is often enough to act as an intuition pump.
coldtea 3y ago
Even if their morality stops there, ot's a good first step to separate a natural class of physically more powerful rapists (men rapists), from a natural class of physically less powerful potential victims (women), no? Or should our morality stop at: "since we can't or don't protect everybody let's leave an obvious, extremely vulnerable, and much more common (male-> female rape vs male->male rape) victim class unprotected?"
pelch 3y ago
No-one is okay with any of this but it makes no sense whatsoever to try to solve a problem within men's prisons, i.e. men raping men, by moving some of these men to women's prisons. Women's prisons do not exist for the purpose of forcing women to be human shields against male-on-male sexual violence.
- ipaddr 3y ago
  Women raping women was the other key point. You don't fix prisons by moving inmates. Having inmates socially interact with large groups of other inmates doesn't sound healthy or wise gender not withstanding. You can't put a group together who's only common interest is crime. Each criminal should be housed separately and socialized with trained pros who can help them work through why they are there. It would pay for itself when criminals don't return to crime. At least make it available for the last 6 months

SketchySeaBeast 3y ago

If we're going to use single digit instances of sexual abuse to delegitimize things I'd love to know your feelings on the Catholic Church, Boy Scouts, and high school sports teams.

coldtea 3y ago
Are those doing those things as legally mandated acts, or merely as illegal acts (some of which were eventually uncovered)? Because illegal abuse will probably always exist - some humans will treat others like craps, illegally. People still understand that those things are wrong. The act of putting actual perpetrators with a class of much less physically strong victims into the same confined space, however, points to specific mindset where doing wrong is thought as doing right, and not just by one or more wicked persons, but also with state power to support it.
- SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
  I'm confused, you think that the sexual assault in the jail was mandated and legal? Do you believe all the regular prison rape is legally mandated as well? > The act of putting actual perpetrators with a class of much less physically strong victims into the same confined space, however, points to specific mindset where doing wrong is thought as doing right, and not just by one or more wicked persons, but also with state power to support it. I'm fairly certain regular prisons don't sort by size either, and not all men or women are built the same.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    No, I believe that what the parent described is putting rape perpetrators in the same confined spaces with physically much weaker class of potential victims as "mandated and legal". >I'm fairly certain regular prisons they don't sort by size either, and not all men are built the same. Yes, so let's put women prisoners and biologically stronger male rapists together then, until we also seperate all prisoners by height and strength in the general case... AKA: there's bad happening already in prisons, so adding bad to it, even if it's a stupidly predictable to foresee and prevent bad, is fine!