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I completely disagree with you. However I did share your exact viewpoint at some stage. At the start of this conflict I was all about revenge against Hamas. I

I completely disagree with you. However I did share your exact viewpoint at some stage. At the start of this conflict I was all about revenge against Hamas. I still am. But Israel has taken it too far. They really are showing very little disregard for the innocent people in Palestine. I'm sorry but they do exist. At some stage, justifying the destruction of thousands of children just to say you're trying to defeat Hamas no longer holds water. This can never be walked back. What has taken place here will never be forgotten I agree Hamas should give hostages back and surrender, but tell me what this has to do with a 5 year old child being blown to pieces again? Why should they have to pay for what some "adults" have done?

invalidname 3y ago
> At the start of this conflict I was all about revenge against Hamas. I still am. But Israel has taken it too far. They really are showing very little disregard for the innocent people in Palestine. I'm sorry but they do exist. I have friends within Gaza. And guess what also hostage friends in Gaza. Don't believe Israel won't bomb the Gazans. But do believe Israel won't bomb the hostages... They don't know where they are so OBVIOUSLY they won't blow up random locations so they won't hurt them... You are falling for Hamas lies. > I agree Hamas should give hostages back and surrender, but tell me what this has to do with a 5 year old child being blown to pieces again? Why should they have to pay for what some "adults" have done? Israel never aimed at 5 year olds and specifically warned about the places where it would attack. The Hamas places civilians in these areas so they can sway minds exactly like in this case... But it's easy to get up on a high horse here... What do you suggest? A ceasefire is like a surrender. They will gather their forces and keep the poor hostages. Every ceasefire in the past was used to get more weapons and fight harder. This has to end for the Gazan people too. They have been under the yoke of the Hamas for too long.
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - invalidname 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - dang 3y ago
      You guys need to stop arguing like this on HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. We want thoughtful, respectful, curious conversation across differences. I know that's virtually impossible with emotions as strong as with this particular set of differences, but in that case it's best to just refrain from posting. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
      - invalidname 3y ago
        This is thoughtful and respectful by comparison. When it comes to the subject matter at hand.
  - dang 3y ago
    You guys need to stop arguing like this on HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. We want thoughtful, respectful, curious conversation across differences. I know that's virtually impossible with emotions as strong as with this particular set of differences, but in that case it's best to just refrain from posting. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
    - ChatGTP 3y ago
      [flagged]
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  But do believe Israel won't bomb the hostages... They don't know where they are so OBVIOUSLY they won't blow up random locations so they won't hurt them... You are falling for Hamas lies. From the article [1]: Hamas’s armed wing, al-Qassam brigades, said seven civilian hostages were killed in the strikes on Jabalia, including three foreign passport holders. So they did blow up seven hostages. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/01/jabalia-camp-airstrike-gaza https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/01/jabalia-camp-a...
philwelch 3y ago
For nine months between October 2016 and July 2017, the Iraqi military, with direct support from the United States and NATO allies, fought a bloody battle to liberate the city of Mosul from ISIS. This battle caused thousands to tens of thousands of civilian casualties, many of which were inflicted by Western airstrikes and Iraqi artillery. Concurrently, between November 2016 and October 2017, Kurdish forces in Syria, alongside foreign volunteers and with Western support, fought an offensive in the Raqqa Governate of Syria to remove ISIS and capture their capital city of Raqqa. Thousands more were killed there. All told, the process of eliminating ISIS’ control over vast swaths of Iraq and Syria led to many thousands of civilian casualties. And yet, everyone seems to agree that between that outcome and the possibility of allowing ISIS to persist, this was the preferable choice between two very bad outcomes. It was a goal that, although briefly and inconsistently, was shared by the US and Russia, all sides of the Syrian Civil War, Turkey, and even Iran. Just like ISIS, allowing Hamas to persist is no longer a viable possibility. People call for a cease fire, but the last cease fire was broken by Hamas when they committed the bloodiest attack on Jewish people since the Holocaust—itself an atrocity that was only ended through a war that entailed the deaths of probably millions of German civilians at the hands of the Allies. Innocent people in Gaza do exist. They exist as hostages of Hamas. I don’t mean just the hundreds of hostages they captured on October 7th; I mean that Hamas is holding the entire population of the Gaza Strip hostage. They build underground tunnels to protect their fighters and their weapons, but nothing to protect civilians. Instead they place refugees on top of their underground command centers and weapons caches. Even when they fire their terror rockets into Israel, many of them never make it past the borders of Gaza. And when this happens, they lie, they accuse Israel of committing attacks on the innocent people of Gaza that actually happened at the hands of Hamas and their allies, and they completely fabricate numbers. Any of the numbers you see reported and attributed to a “health ministry” in Gaza are Hamas fabrications; Western media is strangely gullible about this sort of thing for reasons I can’t explain. And so claims about “the destruction of thousands of children” are little more than Hamas propaganda. Israel has held back their offensives for weeks, provided directed warnings to Gaza residents (at the expense of tipping off Hamas when and where they would strike), and given several days’ warning for Gaza residents to evacuate south of the Wadi Gaza. In response, Hamas blocked the roads and bombed Palestinian refugees traveling towards this safe zone. The only path to a peaceful future for the people of Gaza and Israel is the elimination of Hamas, just as ISIS had to be eliminated. It is a horrible situation, but it is Hamas who has made it this way and that is why Hamas needs to be destroyed. Just because they have better PR than ISIS did doesn’t change the situation on the ground.

invalidname 3y ago

> At the start of this conflict I was all about revenge against Hamas. I still am. But Israel has taken it too far. They really are showing very little disregard for the innocent people in Palestine. I'm sorry but they do exist. I have friends within Gaza. And guess what also hostage friends in Gaza. Don't believe Israel won't bomb the Gazans. But do believe Israel won't bomb the hostages... They don't know where they are so OBVIOUSLY they won't blow up random locations so they won't hurt them... You are falling for Hamas lies. > I agree Hamas should give hostages back and surrender, but tell me what this has to do with a 5 year old child being blown to pieces again? Why should they have to pay for what some "adults" have done? Israel never aimed at 5 year olds and specifically warned about the places where it would attack. The Hamas places civilians in these areas so they can sway minds exactly like in this case... But it's easy to get up on a high horse here... What do you suggest? A ceasefire is like a surrender. They will gather their forces and keep the poor hostages. Every ceasefire in the past was used to get more weapons and fight harder. This has to end for the Gazan people too. They have been under the yoke of the Hamas for too long.

ChatGTP 3y ago
[flagged]
- invalidname 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - dang 3y ago
    You guys need to stop arguing like this on HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. We want thoughtful, respectful, curious conversation across differences. I know that's virtually impossible with emotions as strong as with this particular set of differences, but in that case it's best to just refrain from posting. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
    - invalidname 3y ago
      This is thoughtful and respectful by comparison. When it comes to the subject matter at hand.
- dang 3y ago
  You guys need to stop arguing like this on HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. We want thoughtful, respectful, curious conversation across differences. I know that's virtually impossible with emotions as strong as with this particular set of differences, but in that case it's best to just refrain from posting. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
  - ChatGTP 3y ago
    [flagged]
ChatGTP 3y ago
But do believe Israel won't bomb the hostages... They don't know where they are so OBVIOUSLY they won't blow up random locations so they won't hurt them... You are falling for Hamas lies. From the article [1]: Hamas’s armed wing, al-Qassam brigades, said seven civilian hostages were killed in the strikes on Jabalia, including three foreign passport holders. So they did blow up seven hostages. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/01/jabalia-camp-airstrike-gaza https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/01/jabalia-camp-a...

philwelch 3y ago

For nine months between October 2016 and July 2017, the Iraqi military, with direct support from the United States and NATO allies, fought a bloody battle to liberate the city of Mosul from ISIS. This battle caused thousands to tens of thousands of civilian casualties, many of which were inflicted by Western airstrikes and Iraqi artillery. Concurrently, between November 2016 and October 2017, Kurdish forces in Syria, alongside foreign volunteers and with Western support, fought an offensive in the Raqqa Governate of Syria to remove ISIS and capture their capital city of Raqqa. Thousands more were killed there. All told, the process of eliminating ISIS’ control over vast swaths of Iraq and Syria led to many thousands of civilian casualties. And yet, everyone seems to agree that between that outcome and the possibility of allowing ISIS to persist, this was the preferable choice between two very bad outcomes. It was a goal that, although briefly and inconsistently, was shared by the US and Russia, all sides of the Syrian Civil War, Turkey, and even Iran. Just like ISIS, allowing Hamas to persist is no longer a viable possibility. People call for a cease fire, but the last cease fire was broken by Hamas when they committed the bloodiest attack on Jewish people since the Holocaust—itself an atrocity that was only ended through a war that entailed the deaths of probably millions of German civilians at the hands of the Allies. Innocent people in Gaza do exist. They exist as hostages of Hamas. I don’t mean just the hundreds of hostages they captured on October 7th; I mean that Hamas is holding the entire population of the Gaza Strip hostage. They build underground tunnels to protect their fighters and their weapons, but nothing to protect civilians. Instead they place refugees on top of their underground command centers and weapons caches. Even when they fire their terror rockets into Israel, many of them never make it past the borders of Gaza. And when this happens, they lie, they accuse Israel of committing attacks on the innocent people of Gaza that actually happened at the hands of Hamas and their allies, and they completely fabricate numbers. Any of the numbers you see reported and attributed to a “health ministry” in Gaza are Hamas fabrications; Western media is strangely gullible about this sort of thing for reasons I can’t explain. And so claims about “the destruction of thousands of children” are little more than Hamas propaganda. Israel has held back their offensives for weeks, provided directed warnings to Gaza residents (at the expense of tipping off Hamas when and where they would strike), and given several days’ warning for Gaza residents to evacuate south of the Wadi Gaza. In response, Hamas blocked the roads and bombed Palestinian refugees traveling towards this safe zone. The only path to a peaceful future for the people of Gaza and Israel is the elimination of Hamas, just as ISIS had to be eliminated. It is a horrible situation, but it is Hamas who has made it this way and that is why Hamas needs to be destroyed. Just because they have better PR than ISIS did doesn’t change the situation on the ground.