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I got to see a ball painted with vantablack in real life. It was surreal, it looked almost flat when you glanced at it but then you realized it had depth if you

I got to see a ball painted with vantablack in real life. It was surreal, it looked almost flat when you glanced at it but then you realized it had depth if you looked more closely. I wasn’t allowed to touch it, the man with gloves was very serious about that. I really wanted to touch it. I bet it would’ve been weird to feel it as you looked at it. This is apparently more black than vantablack. I have no need for this but I kind of want to buy some to paint a ball and finally see what it’s like

kelsolaar 3y ago
Without a reflectance/absorptance value it is hard to say but Black 3.0 with 99.6% is nowhere near close to Vantablack with 99.965%. Edit: People are quoting 99.95% for Black 4.0 which is impressive!
- mi_lk 3y ago
  > Black 3.0 with 99.6% is nowhere near close to Vantablack with 99.965% Curious, under what circumstances will this 0.365% be practically important?
  - isilofi 3y ago
    Human vision is logscale, not linear. So in a comparison, you will see a difference.
  - tubs 3y ago
    Consider it in terms of error. The difference is 0.4 to 0.035 An order of magnitude more light reflected.
  - sandworm101 3y ago
    Invert those numbers. 99.6 is actually about 10x brighter, more reflective, than 99.965. Depending on light levels, this would be very noticeable.
    - dr_kiszonka 3y ago
      Would it also be noticeably warmer than a regular black (or white) paint?
      - sandworm101 3y ago
        Warmer in color tone or warmer in that it retains more heat? These blacks are "black" in that they absorb visible light. How or if they absorb IR light (the bulk of heat energy) is a different story. They may be totally reflective in IR. But yes, something that is more black in visible light is probably also more black in IR. But also remember that black objects are also better at emitting IR.
        dr_kiszonka 3y ago
        Thanks for your reply. I meant warmer in terms of heat. I remember being told that white objects reflect heat, which is why white clothes and white buildings are better in hot, sunny locations. I thought the reverse would be true for black. Thanks for educating me!
  - dist-epoch 3y ago
    Humans perceive some things logarithmically. For example our hearing range is 20-20000 Hz, yet we can perceive a 20 Hz sound as different from a 40 Hz one, the difference between them being 20 Hz which is 0.1% of our hearing range.
  - SirMaster 3y ago
    Well, take a look here at Black 3.0 paint next to simple black velvet. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/824109424255434803/887758603958779935/image1.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/824109424255434803/88... Seems there is a lot to go beyond 99.6% I don't know what the absorption value of the black velvet is though. I am curious how Black 4.0 would compare to black velvet.
- igrekel 3y ago
  I was using their black 2.0 and while it's exceptional and has a certain unnatural feel to it under the right lighting, it doesn't achieve the same effect as Vanta black. This sounds like a good improvement.
- alok-g 3y ago
  Against a 100% diffuse reflection, that would be a 2000:1 contrast ratio. And we have TVs commonly claiming much larger! ;-)
civilitty 3y ago
> I wasn’t allowed to touch it, the man with gloves was very serious about that. I really wanted to touch it. It’s basically asbestos. Vantablack is the posterboy for nanotoxicity thanks to the carbon nanotubes. That’s why the manufacturer licensed it to a single artist in the beginning - it has to be used in a lab environment with proper handling and ventilation.
aragonite 3y ago
> I really wanted to touch it. I bet it would’ve been weird to feel it as you looked at it. You can get that weird feel by walking around an indoor space with only one eye open. When I do that, it feels as though all the (varied) colors I see are flat paint strokes lying on some flat surface at some undefined distance from me (as if my perception was stripped of all distance content). I become comically bad at simple tasks like reaching for the door handle or the light switch. When I use my hands to touch the wall it feels like I'm touching something that I'm not seeing (even though I'm looking right at it!)
- richardwhiuk 3y ago
  Note, this depends on how much your brain relies on different signals for 3D. There are plenty of people who don't have binocular vision, who learn to rely on other signals for 3D. See the cues at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_perception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_perception for some other cues that you may use.
  - joveian 3y ago
    Or even some of us who do. Nothing looks the slightest bit different to me with one eye closed (unless it is close enough to have an obvious double or one of those 3d popout thingies, which I have a hard time seeing). I did check quick and it seems I might have occasional differences picking stuff up when I first close an eye but most of the time it is fine. One of my eyes has been non-trivially worse than the other for at least most of my life, although it isn't all that bad (but it does involve some astigmatism so maybe because of that my brain found it easier to not bother much with the binocular stuff).
- IggleSniggle 3y ago
  There are many ways to achieve this state; closing one eye is a shortcut that may work for some. For me, achieving extremely high focus on a difficult problem will also induce this state, as my brain filters out all incoming signals to become singularly focused on the problem. If I'm pulled out suddenly to attend to something totally unrelated, I'll often be distracted by appreciating just how altered my senses are until they reacclimatize to "normal."
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Isn't that because the surface is 'furry' so that light gets reflected 'inwards' of sorts?
- masklinn 3y ago
  If I remember correctly vantablack is a coating of carbon nanotubes, so what little reflects off of a given tube tends to get scattered inside the surface, and very little is able to make it back out after bouncing around. Essentially the surface is a physical light trap.
browningstreet 3y ago
I got to see a bunch of Anish Kapoor things last year in Venice (coinciding with but not part of Venice Biennale) and it was everything you would want in a demonstration of vantablack paintings/sculptures. Very trippy and mind-bending.

kelsolaar 3y ago

Without a reflectance/absorptance value it is hard to say but Black 3.0 with 99.6% is nowhere near close to Vantablack with 99.965%. Edit: People are quoting 99.95% for Black 4.0 which is impressive!

mi_lk 3y ago
> Black 3.0 with 99.6% is nowhere near close to Vantablack with 99.965% Curious, under what circumstances will this 0.365% be practically important?
- isilofi 3y ago
  Human vision is logscale, not linear. So in a comparison, you will see a difference.
- tubs 3y ago
  Consider it in terms of error. The difference is 0.4 to 0.035 An order of magnitude more light reflected.
- sandworm101 3y ago
  Invert those numbers. 99.6 is actually about 10x brighter, more reflective, than 99.965. Depending on light levels, this would be very noticeable.
  - dr_kiszonka 3y ago
    Would it also be noticeably warmer than a regular black (or white) paint?
    - sandworm101 3y ago
      Warmer in color tone or warmer in that it retains more heat? These blacks are "black" in that they absorb visible light. How or if they absorb IR light (the bulk of heat energy) is a different story. They may be totally reflective in IR. But yes, something that is more black in visible light is probably also more black in IR. But also remember that black objects are also better at emitting IR.
      - dr_kiszonka 3y ago
        Thanks for your reply. I meant warmer in terms of heat. I remember being told that white objects reflect heat, which is why white clothes and white buildings are better in hot, sunny locations. I thought the reverse would be true for black. Thanks for educating me!
- dist-epoch 3y ago
  Humans perceive some things logarithmically. For example our hearing range is 20-20000 Hz, yet we can perceive a 20 Hz sound as different from a 40 Hz one, the difference between them being 20 Hz which is 0.1% of our hearing range.
- SirMaster 3y ago
  Well, take a look here at Black 3.0 paint next to simple black velvet. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/824109424255434803/887758603958779935/image1.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/824109424255434803/88... Seems there is a lot to go beyond 99.6% I don't know what the absorption value of the black velvet is though. I am curious how Black 4.0 would compare to black velvet.
igrekel 3y ago
I was using their black 2.0 and while it's exceptional and has a certain unnatural feel to it under the right lighting, it doesn't achieve the same effect as Vanta black. This sounds like a good improvement.
alok-g 3y ago
Against a 100% diffuse reflection, that would be a 2000:1 contrast ratio. And we have TVs commonly claiming much larger! ;-)

civilitty 3y ago

> I wasn’t allowed to touch it, the man with gloves was very serious about that. I really wanted to touch it. It’s basically asbestos. Vantablack is the posterboy for nanotoxicity thanks to the carbon nanotubes. That’s why the manufacturer licensed it to a single artist in the beginning - it has to be used in a lab environment with proper handling and ventilation.

aragonite 3y ago

> I really wanted to touch it. I bet it would’ve been weird to feel it as you looked at it. You can get that weird feel by walking around an indoor space with only one eye open. When I do that, it feels as though all the (varied) colors I see are flat paint strokes lying on some flat surface at some undefined distance from me (as if my perception was stripped of all distance content). I become comically bad at simple tasks like reaching for the door handle or the light switch. When I use my hands to touch the wall it feels like I'm touching something that I'm not seeing (even though I'm looking right at it!)

richardwhiuk 3y ago
Note, this depends on how much your brain relies on different signals for 3D. There are plenty of people who don't have binocular vision, who learn to rely on other signals for 3D. See the cues at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_perception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_perception for some other cues that you may use.
- joveian 3y ago
  Or even some of us who do. Nothing looks the slightest bit different to me with one eye closed (unless it is close enough to have an obvious double or one of those 3d popout thingies, which I have a hard time seeing). I did check quick and it seems I might have occasional differences picking stuff up when I first close an eye but most of the time it is fine. One of my eyes has been non-trivially worse than the other for at least most of my life, although it isn't all that bad (but it does involve some astigmatism so maybe because of that my brain found it easier to not bother much with the binocular stuff).
IggleSniggle 3y ago
There are many ways to achieve this state; closing one eye is a shortcut that may work for some. For me, achieving extremely high focus on a difficult problem will also induce this state, as my brain filters out all incoming signals to become singularly focused on the problem. If I'm pulled out suddenly to attend to something totally unrelated, I'll often be distracted by appreciating just how altered my senses are until they reacclimatize to "normal."

Cthulhu_ 3y ago

Isn't that because the surface is 'furry' so that light gets reflected 'inwards' of sorts?

masklinn 3y ago
If I remember correctly vantablack is a coating of carbon nanotubes, so what little reflects off of a given tube tends to get scattered inside the surface, and very little is able to make it back out after bouncing around. Essentially the surface is a physical light trap.

browningstreet 3y ago

I got to see a bunch of Anish Kapoor things last year in Venice (coinciding with but not part of Venice Biennale) and it was everything you would want in a demonstration of vantablack paintings/sculptures. Very trippy and mind-bending.