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It does make me wonder where that sort of money goes. That's roughly $275k per day. At $1k per person per day you can have 75 staff doing whatever they do (ma

It does make me wonder where that sort of money goes. That's roughly $275k per day. At $1k per person per day you can have 75 staff doing whatever they do (maintainence etc) and still have 200 left over. Computers? One would have thought they'd have on-site processing as part of the build cost. Electricity to run said computers? Food for the cafeteria? Presumably we can ignore accounting things like depreciation. Not that it matters I'm sure it's expensive to run, it's just that $275 k per day seems like a lot...

dylan604 3y ago
The Tom Scott video linked else where in this thread shows that the existing 4 telescopes have on-prem facilities to resurface the mirrors with a layer of 99% pure aluminum 1000 atoms thick. I'm guessing that quality material fabricated to be installed that precisely is not cheap. The mirrors are moved around on custom built hover crafts. When the 4 scopes are used at the same time, the "plumbing" to get the lights to the instruments at the same time is so precise, it is measured in nanometers. There is nothing about these facilities that is normal off the shelf components. Everything will have a cost associated that reflects that. What ever back of the napkin math you are attempting doesn't even come close to being accurate.
- ars 3y ago
  The person you are replying to is asking about operating costs, not manufacturing costs.
  - mrmlz 3y ago
    Well operating a highly custom and very expensive is going to have astronomical operating costs as well.
  - Timshel 3y ago
    Resurfacing is an operating cost it needs to be done periodically.
    - ars 3y ago
      I'm going to need some more info on that, because that doesn't sound right to me. There's no way they are regrinding and resurfacing the mirror periodically - cleaning, sure. But redoing the surface? I'd like to see more info please.
      - dylan604 3y ago
        Just go watch the referenced link. It is a very informative video. It's only the top response of this whole thread, but just to make it convenient[0]. I can only lead you to water. I can't make you drink it. Continuing to refute it after that just let's us know exactly what you're about [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38092084 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38092084
        ars 3y ago
        As requested, I drank, and I saw the part about them refinishing the top surface layer. As I suspected it was not them redoing the glass, rather removing the aluminum and redepositing it. The perfectly shaped glass is the expensive part - coating it is not the expensive part. So despite drinking, I did not get my answer on how this telescope costs $100million a year to operate.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    What part of my comment suggests I was talking about manufacturing costs?
    - ars 3y ago
      This part: "quality material fabricated to be installed"
      - dylan604 3y ago
        But they do this operation every few years. It is an ongoing process of installing the aluminum surface. Applying/Re-applying maybe words better fit for your understanding?
        ars 3y ago
        It's nice to change your words after the fact, but taking your words, as originally written, your response to a question about operations was a reply about manufacturing. Additionally it does not costs millions to operate this resurfacing machine. Building it? Sure, I could see that. But running it? No way.
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
275 k if you average it out over the year, but things like a mirror replacement will require a lot of work, companies, materials and people. Think also of the data processing, and how much money your employer funnels to AWS.
alfiopuglisi 3y ago
The ESO observatory in Paranal has its own electricity power plant, both natural gas and - recently - solar. Computers: multiple TB of data per day will be generated and will need to be archived, backed up, and made easily accessible. Everything on the telescope and the instruments mounted on it is computer-controlled, with countless computer and electronics racks to power and maintain. Staff: not only salaries and food, they have to run a whole hotel-like facility for people who live on the site for weeks at a time, plus travel costs both from the rest of Chile and from the main HQ in Germany. It's in the middle of the most forbidding desert on Earth, so water and everything else has to be trucked in. Facilities are spread out, so there are dozens of trucks and cheap Fiat cars to go around, with a gas station to fill them up. Cooks, cleaners, engineers, technicians come and go nearly every day. It all adds up quickly.

dylan604 3y ago

The Tom Scott video linked else where in this thread shows that the existing 4 telescopes have on-prem facilities to resurface the mirrors with a layer of 99% pure aluminum 1000 atoms thick. I'm guessing that quality material fabricated to be installed that precisely is not cheap. The mirrors are moved around on custom built hover crafts. When the 4 scopes are used at the same time, the "plumbing" to get the lights to the instruments at the same time is so precise, it is measured in nanometers. There is nothing about these facilities that is normal off the shelf components. Everything will have a cost associated that reflects that. What ever back of the napkin math you are attempting doesn't even come close to being accurate.

ars 3y ago
The person you are replying to is asking about operating costs, not manufacturing costs.
- mrmlz 3y ago
  Well operating a highly custom and very expensive is going to have astronomical operating costs as well.
- Timshel 3y ago
  Resurfacing is an operating cost it needs to be done periodically.
  - ars 3y ago
    I'm going to need some more info on that, because that doesn't sound right to me. There's no way they are regrinding and resurfacing the mirror periodically - cleaning, sure. But redoing the surface? I'd like to see more info please.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      Just go watch the referenced link. It is a very informative video. It's only the top response of this whole thread, but just to make it convenient[0]. I can only lead you to water. I can't make you drink it. Continuing to refute it after that just let's us know exactly what you're about [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38092084 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38092084
      - ars 3y ago
        As requested, I drank, and I saw the part about them refinishing the top surface layer. As I suspected it was not them redoing the glass, rather removing the aluminum and redepositing it. The perfectly shaped glass is the expensive part - coating it is not the expensive part. So despite drinking, I did not get my answer on how this telescope costs $100million a year to operate.
- dylan604 3y ago
  What part of my comment suggests I was talking about manufacturing costs?
  - ars 3y ago
    This part: "quality material fabricated to be installed"
    - dylan604 3y ago
      But they do this operation every few years. It is an ongoing process of installing the aluminum surface. Applying/Re-applying maybe words better fit for your understanding?
      - ars 3y ago
        It's nice to change your words after the fact, but taking your words, as originally written, your response to a question about operations was a reply about manufacturing. Additionally it does not costs millions to operate this resurfacing machine. Building it? Sure, I could see that. But running it? No way.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago

275 k if you average it out over the year, but things like a mirror replacement will require a lot of work, companies, materials and people. Think also of the data processing, and how much money your employer funnels to AWS.

alfiopuglisi 3y ago

The ESO observatory in Paranal has its own electricity power plant, both natural gas and - recently - solar. Computers: multiple TB of data per day will be generated and will need to be archived, backed up, and made easily accessible. Everything on the telescope and the instruments mounted on it is computer-controlled, with countless computer and electronics racks to power and maintain. Staff: not only salaries and food, they have to run a whole hotel-like facility for people who live on the site for weeks at a time, plus travel costs both from the rest of Chile and from the main HQ in Germany. It's in the middle of the most forbidding desert on Earth, so water and everything else has to be trucked in. Facilities are spread out, so there are dozens of trucks and cheap Fiat cars to go around, with a gas station to fill them up. Cooks, cleaners, engineers, technicians come and go nearly every day. It all adds up quickly.