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Public schools contributed to my departure from the faith decades afterward. Public schools weren't indoctrinating anything. Rather they taught me to think crit

Public schools contributed to my departure from the faith decades afterward. Public schools weren't indoctrinating anything. Rather they taught me to think critically, using proven methods, and avoid fallacies. Faith communities taught me lazy thinking, blind faith, bigotry, etc. Thank Prussia for a system that -- for all its faults -- provides a way out for kids born into religion.

uticus 3y ago
> Faith communities taught me lazy thinking, blind faith, bigotry, etc. shame on faith communities - and parents - that teach laziness of mind. the effects are obvious, you are not the only person saying this. > Public schools weren't indoctrinating anything. Rather they taught me to think critically, using proven methods, and avoid fallacies you are not the first person to claim religion indoctrinates but public schooling doesn't. i'm always surprised how quickly logic and clear reasoning are thrown out in these statements. has it never occurred to you that critical thinking must be founded on something? that proven methods, useful as they are, can also be misused to support accepted truths that are wrong? that distinguishing fallacies requires recognition of truth, which requires acceptance of certain things as true? i guess what i'm trying to point out is that the list of things you were taught is indoctrination, and that to a high degree. indoctrination is not a bad thing in and of itself. but a system of indoctrination that teaches it isn't indoctrinating scares me.
pdonis 3y ago
> Public schools weren't indoctrinating anything. I don't know which public schools you went to, but the ones I went to (in the US) most certainly were indoctrinating all sorts of things. Nor has that situation improved since I went to school; if anything, in the US it has gotten worse. As for teaching critical thinking, some of the teachers I had in public schools did that. Many others did not. And I think I was among the more fortunate students; many, as far as I could tell, had no teachers who taught them critical thinking. Nor should the fact that US public schools are indoctrinating children be a surprise. As I have noted elsewhere in this thread, the people who set up the US public school system explicitly stated that indoctrinating children in the values the State wanted them to have (whether or not their parents agreed) was a goal of the system.
- devbent 3y ago
  > I went to (in the US) most certainly were indoctrinating all sorts of things. Like what? That people should be treated with respect? Or how about that literacy is important? That slavery was bad? Or how about that lesson plan on how the Holocaust was a really bad thing. Maybe it was that time that schools taught that we killed a bunch of Native Americans for their land. My (public) schooling was rather politically neutral to be honest, but using a banana they did demonstrate how to put on a condom and they talked about STD and pregnancy prevention. One may consider that "indoctrination" but last I checked the "abstinence only" crowd kept getting pregnant out of wedlock at a higher rate than teenagers who were told how to actually prevent pregnancy. Or maybe people are upset that public schools make such outrageous statements as "some kids have two fathers or two mothers at home." Which is a fact, since same sex marriage is now the law of the land as ruled on by the supreme court. Or how about the outrageous statement "some people change their gender". That does indeed happen. Saying stuff that is true, but that makes some people uncomfortable, isn't indoctrination. Meanwhile other countries make children memorize speeches by the country's "president for life". That is indoctrination.

uticus 3y ago

> Faith communities taught me lazy thinking, blind faith, bigotry, etc. shame on faith communities - and parents - that teach laziness of mind. the effects are obvious, you are not the only person saying this. > Public schools weren't indoctrinating anything. Rather they taught me to think critically, using proven methods, and avoid fallacies you are not the first person to claim religion indoctrinates but public schooling doesn't. i'm always surprised how quickly logic and clear reasoning are thrown out in these statements. has it never occurred to you that critical thinking must be founded on something? that proven methods, useful as they are, can also be misused to support accepted truths that are wrong? that distinguishing fallacies requires recognition of truth, which requires acceptance of certain things as true? i guess what i'm trying to point out is that the list of things you were taught is indoctrination, and that to a high degree. indoctrination is not a bad thing in and of itself. but a system of indoctrination that teaches it isn't indoctrinating scares me.

pdonis 3y ago

> Public schools weren't indoctrinating anything. I don't know which public schools you went to, but the ones I went to (in the US) most certainly were indoctrinating all sorts of things. Nor has that situation improved since I went to school; if anything, in the US it has gotten worse. As for teaching critical thinking, some of the teachers I had in public schools did that. Many others did not. And I think I was among the more fortunate students; many, as far as I could tell, had no teachers who taught them critical thinking. Nor should the fact that US public schools are indoctrinating children be a surprise. As I have noted elsewhere in this thread, the people who set up the US public school system explicitly stated that indoctrinating children in the values the State wanted them to have (whether or not their parents agreed) was a goal of the system.

devbent 3y ago
> I went to (in the US) most certainly were indoctrinating all sorts of things. Like what? That people should be treated with respect? Or how about that literacy is important? That slavery was bad? Or how about that lesson plan on how the Holocaust was a really bad thing. Maybe it was that time that schools taught that we killed a bunch of Native Americans for their land. My (public) schooling was rather politically neutral to be honest, but using a banana they did demonstrate how to put on a condom and they talked about STD and pregnancy prevention. One may consider that "indoctrination" but last I checked the "abstinence only" crowd kept getting pregnant out of wedlock at a higher rate than teenagers who were told how to actually prevent pregnancy. Or maybe people are upset that public schools make such outrageous statements as "some kids have two fathers or two mothers at home." Which is a fact, since same sex marriage is now the law of the land as ruled on by the supreme court. Or how about the outrageous statement "some people change their gender". That does indeed happen. Saying stuff that is true, but that makes some people uncomfortable, isn't indoctrination. Meanwhile other countries make children memorize speeches by the country's "president for life". That is indoctrination.