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I think I've read this novel before, except it was rats and monkeys shocking themselves with electrically stimulated orgasms or something till they starved. Per

I think I've read this novel before, except it was rats and monkeys shocking themselves with electrically stimulated orgasms or something till they starved. Perhaps different hormones are involved, or it's remarkable that flies are able to delay gratification, but I'm becoming less surprised by this kind of thing as time goes on. We humans aren't as special as we thought, even when compared to flies.

samirillian 3y ago
No comment on human exceptionalism per se but I think you have the logic a little backwards. The "higher" process would be to act according to reason, not according to one's dopamine receptions.
konstmonst 3y ago
great way to reduce weight!
danwills 3y ago
I agree it's a fair question to compare humans and flies, indeed we are ultimately not very different: both multicellular and individual (wavefront/particle-wise) beings.. I guess the size of the 'agential' goal-radius isn't really comparable but I think of flies as somehow our necessary companions, fancifully the GOL-esque 'gliders' of our reality on earth.. I've seen glider-like behaviour in reaction-diffusion sims too, I think photons are probably glider-like.. Ah whoops, tangent! I think, all multicellular life is probably able to have it's goal-circuits messed-with like this, if access is not controlled enough.. same goes for flies.
avgcorrection 3y ago
This doesn’t pass the smell test if you think about it for two minutes. Well-adjusted people with decently varied lives easily have the means to pleasure-button themselves to death. But they don’t. And not because they continually will-power themselves out of every such situation. Simply because maximum pleasure stimuli is not that interesting. > We humans aren't as special as we thought, even when compared to flies. The fact that you jumped to this conclusion instead of considering how actual people in the real world work rather suggests that you are the one who has some kind of motivated reasoning (in the opposite direction).

samirillian 3y ago

No comment on human exceptionalism per se but I think you have the logic a little backwards. The "higher" process would be to act according to reason, not according to one's dopamine receptions.

konstmonst 3y ago

great way to reduce weight!

danwills 3y ago

I agree it's a fair question to compare humans and flies, indeed we are ultimately not very different: both multicellular and individual (wavefront/particle-wise) beings.. I guess the size of the 'agential' goal-radius isn't really comparable but I think of flies as somehow our necessary companions, fancifully the GOL-esque 'gliders' of our reality on earth.. I've seen glider-like behaviour in reaction-diffusion sims too, I think photons are probably glider-like.. Ah whoops, tangent! I think, all multicellular life is probably able to have it's goal-circuits messed-with like this, if access is not controlled enough.. same goes for flies.

avgcorrection 3y ago

This doesn’t pass the smell test if you think about it for two minutes. Well-adjusted people with decently varied lives easily have the means to pleasure-button themselves to death. But they don’t. And not because they continually will-power themselves out of every such situation. Simply because maximum pleasure stimuli is not that interesting. > We humans aren't as special as we thought, even when compared to flies. The fact that you jumped to this conclusion instead of considering how actual people in the real world work rather suggests that you are the one who has some kind of motivated reasoning (in the opposite direction).