5 ms·

Very sad to see. OpenMW is a very similar project for a game of the same vintage - Morrowind. Still in active development (last commit 1 hour ago as of writing

Very sad to see. OpenMW is a very similar project for a game of the same vintage - Morrowind. Still in active development (last commit 1 hour ago as of writing). To think Bethesda would be fine with openMW, but rockstar had to shut down openRW.

Dalewyn 3y ago
To be fair to Bethesda, they provide all the tooling you would need to make your own Elder Scrolls game with Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, et al.. Modding a Bethesda game is literally getting into the innards of the game itself and changing or replacing bits in it as you please, at least until we get into hooking in DLLs which is a whole different story.
- LAC-Tech 3y ago
  OpenMW is a brand new engine though, built from scratch.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    I might be confusing it with the project that seeks to remaster Morrowind in Skyrim, then.
    - LAC-Tech 3y ago
      Yeah the modding community is pretty insane. There's also "Skyrim, Home of the Nords" which is an effort to re-create pre-Skyrim (the game) lore about Skyrim... in Morrowind.
netruk44 3y ago
Bethesda has, in fact, taken issue with OpenMW in the past [0]. Bethesda at least had a specific reason for going after OpenMW, though. They’re okay with it now under “certain conditions” that I’m sure the OpenMW devs aren’t going to argue with. Their main ask was that the OpenMW devs don’t advertise OpenMW as a way to play Morrowind on Android (or other platforms besides PC). And there’s an understanding that OpenMW’s “intention” isn’t solely to be a way to play Morrowind, but also to implement a generic RPG engine and editor that uses Morrowind’s gameplay and file structure. For someone to make their own game with, not using any of Morrowind’s assets. (I’m not sure if any such game exists, though) [0]: https://wiki.openmw.org/index.php?title=Bethesda_Emails https://wiki.openmw.org/index.php?title=Bethesda_Emails
- skocznymroczny 3y ago
  "And there’s an understanding that OpenMW’s “intention” isn’t solely to be a way to play Morrowind, but also to implement a generic RPG engine and editor that uses Morrowind’s gameplay and file structure. For someone to make their own game with, not using any of Morrowind’s assets. (I’m not sure if any such game exists, though)" To be honest, every project of this kind claims that. And in reality, everyone knows 99% of usecases for such engine is to play the original game. Sometimes there are new IPs being created on such engine. For example recently there's been some "boomer shooters" coming out using engines which were made originally to play classic DOOM or Duke Nukem 3D. But such cases are rare.
kevinmchugh 3y ago
Openmw is a clean room implementation. Bethesda could throw a legal fit regardless but it would be indefensible for them to do so.
- magic_hamster 3y ago
  They can still take you to court for a cost which is negligible to them, but not to OpenMW developers.
  - iforgotpassword 3y ago
    ... In countries with broken legal systems.
    - immibis 3y ago
      ... i.e. all of them.
- DrOctagon 3y ago
  What does clean room mean in this context? Never decompiling the target?
  - bc_programming 3y ago
    "Clean room" reverse engineering basically has you with two completely separate groups of developers. One group will decompile and analyze the target software, and build a detailed specification of how it works. The second group, with legal, sworn documents that they have never seen even the machine code of the target software - uses those specifications to build the "clone".
  - SXX 3y ago
    Usually clean room mean those writing the code and people who decompiling are different people. So code is written against specification. So no it's unlikely to actually be fully clean room project, but written from scratch.

Dalewyn 3y ago

To be fair to Bethesda, they provide all the tooling you would need to make your own Elder Scrolls game with Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, et al.. Modding a Bethesda game is literally getting into the innards of the game itself and changing or replacing bits in it as you please, at least until we get into hooking in DLLs which is a whole different story.

LAC-Tech 3y ago
OpenMW is a brand new engine though, built from scratch.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  I might be confusing it with the project that seeks to remaster Morrowind in Skyrim, then.
  - LAC-Tech 3y ago
    Yeah the modding community is pretty insane. There's also "Skyrim, Home of the Nords" which is an effort to re-create pre-Skyrim (the game) lore about Skyrim... in Morrowind.

netruk44 3y ago

Bethesda has, in fact, taken issue with OpenMW in the past [0]. Bethesda at least had a specific reason for going after OpenMW, though. They’re okay with it now under “certain conditions” that I’m sure the OpenMW devs aren’t going to argue with. Their main ask was that the OpenMW devs don’t advertise OpenMW as a way to play Morrowind on Android (or other platforms besides PC). And there’s an understanding that OpenMW’s “intention” isn’t solely to be a way to play Morrowind, but also to implement a generic RPG engine and editor that uses Morrowind’s gameplay and file structure. For someone to make their own game with, not using any of Morrowind’s assets. (I’m not sure if any such game exists, though) [0]: https://wiki.openmw.org/index.php?title=Bethesda_Emails https://wiki.openmw.org/index.php?title=Bethesda_Emails

skocznymroczny 3y ago
"And there’s an understanding that OpenMW’s “intention” isn’t solely to be a way to play Morrowind, but also to implement a generic RPG engine and editor that uses Morrowind’s gameplay and file structure. For someone to make their own game with, not using any of Morrowind’s assets. (I’m not sure if any such game exists, though)" To be honest, every project of this kind claims that. And in reality, everyone knows 99% of usecases for such engine is to play the original game. Sometimes there are new IPs being created on such engine. For example recently there's been some "boomer shooters" coming out using engines which were made originally to play classic DOOM or Duke Nukem 3D. But such cases are rare.

kevinmchugh 3y ago

Openmw is a clean room implementation. Bethesda could throw a legal fit regardless but it would be indefensible for them to do so.

magic_hamster 3y ago
They can still take you to court for a cost which is negligible to them, but not to OpenMW developers.
- iforgotpassword 3y ago
  ... In countries with broken legal systems.
  - immibis 3y ago
    ... i.e. all of them.
DrOctagon 3y ago
What does clean room mean in this context? Never decompiling the target?
- bc_programming 3y ago
  "Clean room" reverse engineering basically has you with two completely separate groups of developers. One group will decompile and analyze the target software, and build a detailed specification of how it works. The second group, with legal, sworn documents that they have never seen even the machine code of the target software - uses those specifications to build the "clone".
- SXX 3y ago
  Usually clean room mean those writing the code and people who decompiling are different people. So code is written against specification. So no it's unlikely to actually be fully clean room project, but written from scratch.