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You've misunderstood Catholicism. The entire reason Christianity is so radical is because it's the first major religion of purely love. There is no need to sacr

You've misunderstood Catholicism. The entire reason Christianity is so radical is because it's the first major religion of purely love. There is no need to sacrifice anyone, you get infinite forgiveness, so long as you truly repent, and nearly every facet of Catholicism is based around the idea of love. A fine example is the incredibly important Corinthians 13:13: And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. When we die, there is no need for faith. We have the answer. When we die, we have no need for hope - again, we have the answer. The Catholic church places love above all else. The idea that you only think "specific people" can do good in the world is pretty nuts - the Catholic Church alone is the largest non-governmental provider of healthcare in the world. I also don't understand why books are somehow bad places to get information, even if they're completely fictional. Can you not learn lessons from cartoons, even? Do you truly think every moral issue is so simply black and white that it doesn't require practice and debate? I am not going to say religion is perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but much of what you're complaining about simply is not true.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> You've misunderstood Catholicism To be fair, Catholics at even rather high ranks in the heirarchy have fairly radically divergent views of Catholicism.
- kulahan 3y ago
  Yes, but the things he's discussing are rather fundamental and core, not anachronisms of thousand-year-old interpretations
triyambakam 3y ago
> first major religion of purely love. Hinduism is much older than Christianity. Specifically the Shiva sects. Shiva means compassionate one. God is seen as immanent love and transcendent reality.
- glitchc 3y ago
  This is a bit of stretch. Shiva is the god of destruction and is frequently avatared carrying weapons. While the scriptures may preach compassion, this is not what the majority of adherents see and observe.
  - rand0mx1 3y ago
    There are many scriptures related to shiva, you are just picking one aspect to suit your agenda.
  - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
    so you know about Noah's arc and sodom and gemorra, right?
    - arkey 3y ago
      And do you? Do you actually understand what and why it happened?
  - triyambakam 3y ago
    You are grossly misinformed about the history and practice of Hinduism and Saivism. You're repeating stereotypes. Please cite your sources. Tell this to the South Indian Tamil who say Anbe Sivamayam, Satyame Parasivam (God is immanent love and transcendent reality). The "Siva as destroyer" is imagery is perpetuated by firstly Hindus who don't worship God as Siva (e.g. Vaishnava, who worship God as Kristna), secondly by the "spiritual but non religious" people of both Hindu heritage and not, and finally by e.g. Christians. In Saivism there is one aspect of Siva that is "destruction" but it is a synonym for "dissolution" and is not a scary aspect.
kensai 3y ago
Unfortunately sometimes the "love" in Catholicism is excessive and we see it in all these sad stories of pedophilia.
spondylosaurus 3y ago
> ...you get infinite forgiveness, so long as you truly repent... Thinking back to an earlier comment up the chain (from someone else) about how being nonreligious doesn't offer enough moral guidance, and I kinda think the "infinite forgiveness" thing is exponentially more fraught than even the most detached "nothing really matters" atheist. Being able to do literally anything and not face cosmic consequences so long as you say you're sorry is mind-boggling to me. I wonder if it's partly why so many convicted murderers get born-again when they're in prison.
- analog31 3y ago
  It's pragmatic. Being religious checks a box when they want to apply for parole.
- NateEag 3y ago
  In many stripes of Christianity, Divine forgiveness is given freely in response to repentance. Genuine repentance is marked by sorrow over the harms and wrongs you have done, and sincere efforts to make amends where you can. It's also marked by an understanding that your actions may have ramifications here and now and a willingness to bear the consequences of what you have wrought, insofar as you are able - "Take up your cross and follow Me," in the vernacular of the religion. Forgiveness is freely given, in the sense that you cannot earn it and God extends it to you, but it's recognized that even accepting forgiveness requires admission of wrong and actively renouncing your pattern of wrongdoing. You can't accept forgivenwas for something you think was just fine. shrug I'm not sure how widely this perspective inn it is shared in modern Christianity. It's where I wound up when I experienced Jesus' love and kindness firmly dragging my besetting sins in front of me to be dealt with, but since that day I've certainly noticed Christians who don't seem to share this perspective.
  - graemep 3y ago
    > In many stripes of Christianity, Divine forgiveness is given freely in response to repentance. Many? I would say it was the central message of Christianity. > It's where I wound up when I experienced Jesus' love and kindness firmly dragging my besetting sins in front of me to be dealt with, but since that day I've certainly noticed Christians who don't seem to share this perspective. Sadly that happens.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
cntrmmbrpsswrd 3y ago
The reality of the Catholic Church and its history is far and away divorced from the teachings of Jesus. Like the OP, I was also raised in a devout Catholic household, and while, yes, there is plenty of talk of love, there is, and traditionally has been plenty of fear-mongering. You need to constantly be on the look out for Satan and his temptations. There's a laundry list of things you shouldn't do or think about. If you do, you should feel guilty and repent. God is always watching, so be good. Every individual church is different, and your mileage will vary, but I found them to be similar to office spaces in the level of bickering and gossip as their best, and deeply dysfunctional institutions at worse. I would also disagree that Christianity was the first major religion of purely love when Buddhism had been around for centuries and had the practice of forsaking one's own enlightenment in order to save all being from suffering.
- gunapologist99 3y ago
  I am not Catholic, but I have studied the history of various religions, and it's pretty clear that the RC Church definitely deviated from the teachings it claimed to follow, for literally centuries. In fact, for centuries it was actually illegal for lay people (people who weren't priests/clergy) to read the Bible, and it was forbidden to translate it into other languages. There are many such examples, such as the selling of indulgences (buy salvation instead of it being free). But: just because that Catholic Church deviated from its own teachings doesn't mean that at least some of those teachings weren't correct. Teachings like "love one another" resonate in any language.
- boredhedgehog 3y ago
  > there is plenty of talk of love, there is, and traditionally has been plenty of fear-mongering. Which is perfectly consistent. The idea is that love is better than fear, but fear is still better than lack of contrition. Accepting this fear as an intermediate step, instead of immediately expecting perfection, is an important psychological step.
MisterBastahrd 3y ago
You need to read your catechism. Catholicism absolutely has sins that are unforgivable.
- kulahan 3y ago
  This is incorrect. The only "unforgivable" sin is one you carry to your death.
tomrod 3y ago
Introspection can be hard. It's worthwhile to spend time understanding and even incorporating external critique for improvement of self and community.
confidantlake 3y ago
The catholic church sure seems to love little kids and the protecting the priests from the consequences of loving those kids.
- kulahan 3y ago
  Yeah, at their worst, they were slightly worse than teachers at one point. Thankfully, the Catholic church has been working on massive reforms and almost all of these issues are from 50+ years ago. Now, they're significantly safer than any random adult.

dragonwriter 3y ago

> You've misunderstood Catholicism To be fair, Catholics at even rather high ranks in the heirarchy have fairly radically divergent views of Catholicism.

kulahan 3y ago
Yes, but the things he's discussing are rather fundamental and core, not anachronisms of thousand-year-old interpretations

triyambakam 3y ago

> first major religion of purely love. Hinduism is much older than Christianity. Specifically the Shiva sects. Shiva means compassionate one. God is seen as immanent love and transcendent reality.

glitchc 3y ago
This is a bit of stretch. Shiva is the god of destruction and is frequently avatared carrying weapons. While the scriptures may preach compassion, this is not what the majority of adherents see and observe.
- rand0mx1 3y ago
  There are many scriptures related to shiva, you are just picking one aspect to suit your agenda.
- adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
  so you know about Noah's arc and sodom and gemorra, right?
  - arkey 3y ago
    And do you? Do you actually understand what and why it happened?
- triyambakam 3y ago
  You are grossly misinformed about the history and practice of Hinduism and Saivism. You're repeating stereotypes. Please cite your sources. Tell this to the South Indian Tamil who say Anbe Sivamayam, Satyame Parasivam (God is immanent love and transcendent reality). The "Siva as destroyer" is imagery is perpetuated by firstly Hindus who don't worship God as Siva (e.g. Vaishnava, who worship God as Kristna), secondly by the "spiritual but non religious" people of both Hindu heritage and not, and finally by e.g. Christians. In Saivism there is one aspect of Siva that is "destruction" but it is a synonym for "dissolution" and is not a scary aspect.

kensai 3y ago

Unfortunately sometimes the "love" in Catholicism is excessive and we see it in all these sad stories of pedophilia.

spondylosaurus 3y ago

> ...you get infinite forgiveness, so long as you truly repent... Thinking back to an earlier comment up the chain (from someone else) about how being nonreligious doesn't offer enough moral guidance, and I kinda think the "infinite forgiveness" thing is exponentially more fraught than even the most detached "nothing really matters" atheist. Being able to do literally anything and not face cosmic consequences so long as you say you're sorry is mind-boggling to me. I wonder if it's partly why so many convicted murderers get born-again when they're in prison.

analog31 3y ago
It's pragmatic. Being religious checks a box when they want to apply for parole.
NateEag 3y ago
In many stripes of Christianity, Divine forgiveness is given freely in response to repentance. Genuine repentance is marked by sorrow over the harms and wrongs you have done, and sincere efforts to make amends where you can. It's also marked by an understanding that your actions may have ramifications here and now and a willingness to bear the consequences of what you have wrought, insofar as you are able - "Take up your cross and follow Me," in the vernacular of the religion. Forgiveness is freely given, in the sense that you cannot earn it and God extends it to you, but it's recognized that even accepting forgiveness requires admission of wrong and actively renouncing your pattern of wrongdoing. You can't accept forgivenwas for something you think was just fine. shrug I'm not sure how widely this perspective inn it is shared in modern Christianity. It's where I wound up when I experienced Jesus' love and kindness firmly dragging my besetting sins in front of me to be dealt with, but since that day I've certainly noticed Christians who don't seem to share this perspective.
- graemep 3y ago
  > In many stripes of Christianity, Divine forgiveness is given freely in response to repentance. Many? I would say it was the central message of Christianity. > It's where I wound up when I experienced Jesus' love and kindness firmly dragging my besetting sins in front of me to be dealt with, but since that day I've certainly noticed Christians who don't seem to share this perspective. Sadly that happens.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

cntrmmbrpsswrd 3y ago

The reality of the Catholic Church and its history is far and away divorced from the teachings of Jesus. Like the OP, I was also raised in a devout Catholic household, and while, yes, there is plenty of talk of love, there is, and traditionally has been plenty of fear-mongering. You need to constantly be on the look out for Satan and his temptations. There's a laundry list of things you shouldn't do or think about. If you do, you should feel guilty and repent. God is always watching, so be good. Every individual church is different, and your mileage will vary, but I found them to be similar to office spaces in the level of bickering and gossip as their best, and deeply dysfunctional institutions at worse. I would also disagree that Christianity was the first major religion of purely love when Buddhism had been around for centuries and had the practice of forsaking one's own enlightenment in order to save all being from suffering.

gunapologist99 3y ago
I am not Catholic, but I have studied the history of various religions, and it's pretty clear that the RC Church definitely deviated from the teachings it claimed to follow, for literally centuries. In fact, for centuries it was actually illegal for lay people (people who weren't priests/clergy) to read the Bible, and it was forbidden to translate it into other languages. There are many such examples, such as the selling of indulgences (buy salvation instead of it being free). But: just because that Catholic Church deviated from its own teachings doesn't mean that at least some of those teachings weren't correct. Teachings like "love one another" resonate in any language.
boredhedgehog 3y ago
> there is plenty of talk of love, there is, and traditionally has been plenty of fear-mongering. Which is perfectly consistent. The idea is that love is better than fear, but fear is still better than lack of contrition. Accepting this fear as an intermediate step, instead of immediately expecting perfection, is an important psychological step.

MisterBastahrd 3y ago

You need to read your catechism. Catholicism absolutely has sins that are unforgivable.

kulahan 3y ago
This is incorrect. The only "unforgivable" sin is one you carry to your death.

tomrod 3y ago

Introspection can be hard. It's worthwhile to spend time understanding and even incorporating external critique for improvement of self and community.

confidantlake 3y ago

The catholic church sure seems to love little kids and the protecting the priests from the consequences of loving those kids.

kulahan 3y ago
Yeah, at their worst, they were slightly worse than teachers at one point. Thankfully, the Catholic church has been working on massive reforms and almost all of these issues are from 50+ years ago. Now, they're significantly safer than any random adult.