7 ms·

It's worth pointing out that this project has not seen active development for a couple of years, since Take-Two sued the developers: https://news.ycombinator.c

by wicket 3y ago

It's worth pointing out that this project has not seen active development for a couple of years, since Take-Two sued the developers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26199879 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26199879 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28402640 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28402640

Hamuko 3y ago
Aren't those links about a completely different project with a completely different name?
- Philpax 3y ago
  That's correct - OpenRW is a from-scratch reimplementation of GTA3, while re3 is a manual decompilation that's capable of reproducing the original executable (or something very close to it). Both projects are very impressive in their own right. When re3 went public, OpenRW archived their repository; when re3 was DMCA'd, OpenRW unarchived their repository; and when re3 was sued, OpenRW ceased development. (This is based on my recollection from observing this two years ago - there may be other factors involved)
  - hd4 3y ago
    >when re3 was sued The day reverse-engineering legal protections failed.
    - bigstrat2003 3y ago
      Not really. No legal protection is able to stop an overzealous litigant from suing you. The real test is whether they win the case, not whether they can file one. Unfortunately, most people don't have the means to defend such a lawsuit, so they get bullied out of their legal rights.
      - flykespice 3y ago
        This These companies know very well these independent groups, even if it's on their legal bounds, can't afford a legal defense team and actively exploit that to abuse them away.
    - kevinmchugh 3y ago
      re3 is a very dubious legal case. They decompiled the game with debug symbols and then did a (aiui) non-clean room reimplementation of the code, based on the decompilation. It is protected legal activity to decompile a binary and study the source. It is protected legal activity to study some source code, describe it, and have someone who never saw the source reimplement the code described. It is straightforwardly illegal to decompile source code, recompile it, and the distribute the recompiled binary. re3 is somewhere between the latter two, and (again aiui from looking into it 2 years ago) they didn't have a clean room step. It's probably a good thing no one will litigate it. It seems highly likely to be illegal and reasonably do. It would be a bad thing to spend money on.
      - hd4 3y ago
        "It is straightforwardly illegal to decompile source code, recompile it, and the distribute the recompiled binary." According to what? If the rules are so poorly defined that way then maybe it's not a bad thing to disregard them. Because simply decompiling source code and then recompiling it isn't a simple one-step thing in the way you suggest, not even close.
        throwaway290 3y ago
        Next you will suggest that stealing original artwork and laundering copyright through generative art ML systems is not illegal...
        yard2010 3y ago
        Well, you wouldn't steal a car /s
        yard2010 3y ago
        Well, you wouldn't steal a car /s
        hd4 3y ago
        false equivalence
  - LAC-Tech 3y ago
    Very sad to see. OpenMW is a very similar project for a game of the same vintage - Morrowind. Still in active development (last commit 1 hour ago as of writing). To think Bethesda would be fine with openMW, but rockstar had to shut down openRW.
    - Dalewyn 3y ago
      To be fair to Bethesda, they provide all the tooling you would need to make your own Elder Scrolls game with Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, et al.. Modding a Bethesda game is literally getting into the innards of the game itself and changing or replacing bits in it as you please, at least until we get into hooking in DLLs which is a whole different story.
      - LAC-Tech 3y ago
        OpenMW is a brand new engine though, built from scratch.
        Dalewyn 3y ago
        I might be confusing it with the project that seeks to remaster Morrowind in Skyrim, then.
        LAC-Tech 3y ago
        Yeah the modding community is pretty insane. There's also "Skyrim, Home of the Nords" which is an effort to re-create pre-Skyrim (the game) lore about Skyrim... in Morrowind.
    - netruk44 3y ago
      Bethesda has, in fact, taken issue with OpenMW in the past [0]. Bethesda at least had a specific reason for going after OpenMW, though. They’re okay with it now under “certain conditions” that I’m sure the OpenMW devs aren’t going to argue with. Their main ask was that the OpenMW devs don’t advertise OpenMW as a way to play Morrowind on Android (or other platforms besides PC). And there’s an understanding that OpenMW’s “intention” isn’t solely to be a way to play Morrowind, but also to implement a generic RPG engine and editor that uses Morrowind’s gameplay and file structure. For someone to make their own game with, not using any of Morrowind’s assets. (I’m not sure if any such game exists, though) [0]: https://wiki.openmw.org/index.php?title=Bethesda_Emails https://wiki.openmw.org/index.php?title=Bethesda_Emails
  - opyate 3y ago
    Of course publishers are going to keep these old IPs under lock and key, because they've now figured out they can slap new graphics on it every few years and re-sell it to us at full price.
  - chmod775 3y ago
    Worth noting that in case of the lawsuit they settled, with terms likely being "don't do it again". https://www.pcgamer.com/take-two-dismisses-lawsuit-against-grand-theft-auto-modders/ https://www.pcgamer.com/take-two-dismisses-lawsuit-against-g...
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- wicket 3y ago
  You are right, however it's likely that OpenRW was also impacted by Take-Two's actions towards Re3 given that its development also ceased around the same time.

by wicket 3y ago

Hamuko 3y ago

Aren't those links about a completely different project with a completely different name?

Philpax 3y ago
That's correct - OpenRW is a from-scratch reimplementation of GTA3, while re3 is a manual decompilation that's capable of reproducing the original executable (or something very close to it). Both projects are very impressive in their own right. When re3 went public, OpenRW archived their repository; when re3 was DMCA'd, OpenRW unarchived their repository; and when re3 was sued, OpenRW ceased development. (This is based on my recollection from observing this two years ago - there may be other factors involved)
- hd4 3y ago
  >when re3 was sued The day reverse-engineering legal protections failed.
  - bigstrat2003 3y ago
    Not really. No legal protection is able to stop an overzealous litigant from suing you. The real test is whether they win the case, not whether they can file one. Unfortunately, most people don't have the means to defend such a lawsuit, so they get bullied out of their legal rights.
    - flykespice 3y ago
      This These companies know very well these independent groups, even if it's on their legal bounds, can't afford a legal defense team and actively exploit that to abuse them away.
  - kevinmchugh 3y ago
    re3 is a very dubious legal case. They decompiled the game with debug symbols and then did a (aiui) non-clean room reimplementation of the code, based on the decompilation. It is protected legal activity to decompile a binary and study the source. It is protected legal activity to study some source code, describe it, and have someone who never saw the source reimplement the code described. It is straightforwardly illegal to decompile source code, recompile it, and the distribute the recompiled binary. re3 is somewhere between the latter two, and (again aiui from looking into it 2 years ago) they didn't have a clean room step. It's probably a good thing no one will litigate it. It seems highly likely to be illegal and reasonably do. It would be a bad thing to spend money on.
    - hd4 3y ago
      "It is straightforwardly illegal to decompile source code, recompile it, and the distribute the recompiled binary." According to what? If the rules are so poorly defined that way then maybe it's not a bad thing to disregard them. Because simply decompiling source code and then recompiling it isn't a simple one-step thing in the way you suggest, not even close.
      - throwaway290 3y ago
        Next you will suggest that stealing original artwork and laundering copyright through generative art ML systems is not illegal...
        yard2010 3y ago
        Well, you wouldn't steal a car /s
        yard2010 3y ago
        Well, you wouldn't steal a car /s
        hd4 3y ago
        false equivalence
- LAC-Tech 3y ago
  Very sad to see. OpenMW is a very similar project for a game of the same vintage - Morrowind. Still in active development (last commit 1 hour ago as of writing). To think Bethesda would be fine with openMW, but rockstar had to shut down openRW.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    To be fair to Bethesda, they provide all the tooling you would need to make your own Elder Scrolls game with Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, et al.. Modding a Bethesda game is literally getting into the innards of the game itself and changing or replacing bits in it as you please, at least until we get into hooking in DLLs which is a whole different story.
    - LAC-Tech 3y ago
      OpenMW is a brand new engine though, built from scratch.
      - Dalewyn 3y ago
        I might be confusing it with the project that seeks to remaster Morrowind in Skyrim, then.
        LAC-Tech 3y ago
        Yeah the modding community is pretty insane. There's also "Skyrim, Home of the Nords" which is an effort to re-create pre-Skyrim (the game) lore about Skyrim... in Morrowind.
  - netruk44 3y ago
    Bethesda has, in fact, taken issue with OpenMW in the past [0]. Bethesda at least had a specific reason for going after OpenMW, though. They’re okay with it now under “certain conditions” that I’m sure the OpenMW devs aren’t going to argue with. Their main ask was that the OpenMW devs don’t advertise OpenMW as a way to play Morrowind on Android (or other platforms besides PC). And there’s an understanding that OpenMW’s “intention” isn’t solely to be a way to play Morrowind, but also to implement a generic RPG engine and editor that uses Morrowind’s gameplay and file structure. For someone to make their own game with, not using any of Morrowind’s assets. (I’m not sure if any such game exists, though) [0]: https://wiki.openmw.org/index.php?title=Bethesda_Emails https://wiki.openmw.org/index.php?title=Bethesda_Emails
- opyate 3y ago
  Of course publishers are going to keep these old IPs under lock and key, because they've now figured out they can slap new graphics on it every few years and re-sell it to us at full price.
- chmod775 3y ago
  Worth noting that in case of the lawsuit they settled, with terms likely being "don't do it again". https://www.pcgamer.com/take-two-dismisses-lawsuit-against-grand-theft-auto-modders/ https://www.pcgamer.com/take-two-dismisses-lawsuit-against-g...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
wicket 3y ago
You are right, however it's likely that OpenRW was also impacted by Take-Two's actions towards Re3 given that its development also ceased around the same time.