3 ms·

If the purpose of religion is to align yourself to the highest aspirations why do so many large religious organizations get caught up stuff like this: https://

by Teever 3y ago

If the purpose of religion is to align yourself to the highest aspirations why do so many large religious organizations get caught up stuff like this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mormon-church-ensign-peak-whistleblower-david-nielsen-allegations-60-minutes-2023-05-14/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mormon-church-ensign-peak-whist...

c0pium 3y ago
I know this is bait, however Romans 3:23-24 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus
- Teever 3y ago
  It's not bait, it's a serious issue. Religious organizations are free-riding in society and not paying their fair share. This is criminal and should be prosecuted. Render unto Caesar and all that.
- tomrod 3y ago
  Aye, Paul felt this. But Jesus taught by their fruits shall ye know them. AFAICT, all Christians know the Jesus trumps Paul. Under such a calculus, the variance of Christians living their standards en masse is sufficient evidence of mission failure, not simply internal inconsistency. As an example, consider how many religious organizations not only ban LGBT (despite teaching god made them as they are) but outright actively work to disenfranchise them (tolerance failure). I believe it is reasonable that organizations should not be tolerated when they are corrupt subcommunities cancerously siphoning resources from the body of a community. Whether that organization is commercial, civic, or religious shouldn't affect the determination.
mensetmanusman 3y ago
It’s the same reason every institution has corruption: health care, insurance, wall st., etc.
- Teever 3y ago
  What is that reason?
prewett 3y ago
Why do we fail to live up to our own personal standards? Is it a surprise that a large group of people fails to do what even the best person fails to do? You get all kinds of people in a religious group: the legalists, the people who think they believe but actually have a higher priority, the immature people, and the mature self-givers. Legalism has inherent contradictions that can easily end up treating people poorly. The people who have a higher priority that than the values of the group are likely to act outside the values of the group, which is especially noticeable if they are in leadership. The immature people want to do the right thing, but fear, emotional issues, etc. exert a stronger pull. I don't think the purpose of religion is to "align yourself to the highest aspirations", though, but rather to make sense of our place in the world and how to rightly live within it. They have rather different views of this, of course. Traditional Christianity says our place in the world is as children of God who are intended to be the image of God in the world and shepherd it with God's self-giving love. (Getting saved to go to heaven is a relatively new simplification.) Buddhism, in contrast, observes that all composed things are impermanent, so nothing is actually real and forming attachments to things causes pain. The ethics flow out of the views of our relationship within/to the world.
- Teever 3y ago
  It's not about my standards, it's about the standards of society and the organization. These are crimes, from an organization that purports to be intrinsically different and better than other organizations. So be better.
ngngngng 3y ago
This is a big nothingburger. If you only look at the enrollment at LDS church owned universities, then that fund would be a much smaller "endowment" than other comparable private universities have. Not to mention that the church heavily subsidizes tuition, tuition at LDS schools is unbelievably cheap. But also, the LDS church does way more than just run schools.

by Teever 3y ago

c0pium 3y ago

I know this is bait, however Romans 3:23-24 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus

Teever 3y ago
It's not bait, it's a serious issue. Religious organizations are free-riding in society and not paying their fair share. This is criminal and should be prosecuted. Render unto Caesar and all that.
tomrod 3y ago
Aye, Paul felt this. But Jesus taught by their fruits shall ye know them. AFAICT, all Christians know the Jesus trumps Paul. Under such a calculus, the variance of Christians living their standards en masse is sufficient evidence of mission failure, not simply internal inconsistency. As an example, consider how many religious organizations not only ban LGBT (despite teaching god made them as they are) but outright actively work to disenfranchise them (tolerance failure). I believe it is reasonable that organizations should not be tolerated when they are corrupt subcommunities cancerously siphoning resources from the body of a community. Whether that organization is commercial, civic, or religious shouldn't affect the determination.

mensetmanusman 3y ago

It’s the same reason every institution has corruption: health care, insurance, wall st., etc.

Teever 3y ago
What is that reason?

prewett 3y ago

Why do we fail to live up to our own personal standards? Is it a surprise that a large group of people fails to do what even the best person fails to do? You get all kinds of people in a religious group: the legalists, the people who think they believe but actually have a higher priority, the immature people, and the mature self-givers. Legalism has inherent contradictions that can easily end up treating people poorly. The people who have a higher priority that than the values of the group are likely to act outside the values of the group, which is especially noticeable if they are in leadership. The immature people want to do the right thing, but fear, emotional issues, etc. exert a stronger pull. I don't think the purpose of religion is to "align yourself to the highest aspirations", though, but rather to make sense of our place in the world and how to rightly live within it. They have rather different views of this, of course. Traditional Christianity says our place in the world is as children of God who are intended to be the image of God in the world and shepherd it with God's self-giving love. (Getting saved to go to heaven is a relatively new simplification.) Buddhism, in contrast, observes that all composed things are impermanent, so nothing is actually real and forming attachments to things causes pain. The ethics flow out of the views of our relationship within/to the world.

Teever 3y ago
It's not about my standards, it's about the standards of society and the organization. These are crimes, from an organization that purports to be intrinsically different and better than other organizations. So be better.

ngngngng 3y ago

This is a big nothingburger. If you only look at the enrollment at LDS church owned universities, then that fund would be a much smaller "endowment" than other comparable private universities have. Not to mention that the church heavily subsidizes tuition, tuition at LDS schools is unbelievably cheap. But also, the LDS church does way more than just run schools.