36 ms·

So AI made a cheap copy of something people made...Can it do anything else?

by bigfishrunning 3y ago

solardev 3y ago
It's apparently pretty good at annoying people on HN who like to downplay its every achievement
- WoodenChair 3y ago
  > It's apparently pretty good at annoying people on HN who like to downplay its every achievement It's not really "its" achievement. There are many open source repositories of Flappy Bird that it was trained on and there are many brilliant engineers at Google and OpenAI who have worked on LLM technology. It is their achievement if anything. It is a product. A product of others' achievement. You don't say Excel had an achievement when it calculates a good formula for you? Do you say a neural network that produces great speech to text had an achievement? Or do say the people who developed it did.
  - famouswaffles 3y ago
    >Do you say a neural network that produces great speech to text had an achievement? Or do say the people who developed it did. Sure Why not? The engineers at google and open ai or wherever else trained the models but they didn't teach it how to do anything it does because they don't know how to teach it to do anything it does. So yeah the achievement is on the neural network. Many people gave the likes of alpha go achievement on super human Go play.
    - throw555chip 3y ago
      > So yeah the achievement is on the neural network. It is? OK, tell them to completely clear the model of any angry bird original and clone code, data and assets that it scarfed from the Internet. It can retain scarfed definitions of angry and bird as well as scarfed information on making a 2D video game. Then tell the model to create the game and see what if anything it comes up with.
      - simonw 3y ago
        In terms of the code, I don't think it would be hard to create an Angry Bird clone of this quality using a GPT-4 scale model that had somehow had all knowledge of Angry Birds excluded from it. Most of the Angry Birds mechanics in this demo come from the underlying Matter 2D library. Relevant demo here: https://brm.io/matter-js/demo/#slingshot https://brm.io/matter-js/demo/#slingshot Honestly, that's most of the code part accounted for. The bigger question is the graphical assets. The developer shared their prompts for those here: https://twitter.com/javilopen/status/1719363587351740711 https://twitter.com/javilopen/status/1719363587351740711 Some of them make no mention of Angry Birds - "Wooden box. Large skeleton bone. Item assets sprites. White background. In-game sprites" - but others do: "Item assets sprites. Wooden planks. White background. In-game sprites. Similar to Angry Birds style" My hunch is that a skilled image prompter could still get to results that were right for this particular demo even with a model that had not seen Angry Birds assets before.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - ben_w 3y ago
    We have exactly the same argument on a regular basis about whether or not we should say Musk is responsible for the success of Tesla; likewise with attributing the achievements of the USA[0] (or even just the government of the USA[0]) to the specific president of the time rather than to the nation as a whole. And before Musk was born, similar debates about describing Armstrong as the first man on the moon, given how even saying that inherently brushes aside the contributions of all those who worked on the mission without going to space. [0] In the UK it seems to be half on the Prime Minister and half the party of the age; I don't pay enough attention to the local opinion of politics elsewhere, though I will say the British press seems to blame everything Germany does on the German Chancellor personally…
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- tw061023 3y ago
  Which, precisely, achievement? Show all prompts step-by-step and let people reproduce. Someone claims they did X using a couple of AI instruments, without sharing anything to prove the claim, and everyone is excited. I understand that the industry needs a new hype to keep going, but this is just pathetic.
  - GaggiX 3y ago
    >Show all prompts step-by-step and let people reproduce. Read beyond the first tweet.
    - tw061023 3y ago
      I see six tweets in the thread, how many do you see? If you also see six tweets, please reproduce the result following instructions in the tweets and share the recording of you doing so. Graphics don't matter, let sprites be colored rectangles.
      - GaggiX 3y ago
        >Graphics don't matter, let sprites be colored rectangles. Why? Are the sprites and backgrounds too easy to recreate with MJ and Dall-e after you realized that the author actually provided the prompts for them?
        tw061023 3y ago
        You misunderstood. I am trying to make the task easier for you. Just reproduce the code with LLM of your choosing. If you manage to actually do so - please feel free to add graphics with any other model.
breakfastduck 3y ago
Come on... I'm fairly cynical when it comes to AI but someone building a pretty complete game from scratch entirely using AI to generate the code and assets is a little beyond it 'making a cheap copy of something else'.
- raytopia 3y ago
  I mean while impressive all the art assets were very clearly knockoffs of Angry Bird's art.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- bluescrn 3y ago
  If you fed a competent human massive quantities of human-created code and artwork, they could fairly quickly mash it up and produce a clone of a simple game, too. Have we created real AI, or merely 'AP' - Auto-Plagiarism?
  - breakfastduck 3y ago
    I doubt it
tw061023 3y ago
Except it didn't.

So AI made a cheap copy of something people made...Can it do anything else?

solardev 3y ago

It's apparently pretty good at annoying people on HN who like to downplay its every achievement

WoodenChair 3y ago
> It's apparently pretty good at annoying people on HN who like to downplay its every achievement It's not really "its" achievement. There are many open source repositories of Flappy Bird that it was trained on and there are many brilliant engineers at Google and OpenAI who have worked on LLM technology. It is their achievement if anything. It is a product. A product of others' achievement. You don't say Excel had an achievement when it calculates a good formula for you? Do you say a neural network that produces great speech to text had an achievement? Or do say the people who developed it did.
- famouswaffles 3y ago
  >Do you say a neural network that produces great speech to text had an achievement? Or do say the people who developed it did. Sure Why not? The engineers at google and open ai or wherever else trained the models but they didn't teach it how to do anything it does because they don't know how to teach it to do anything it does. So yeah the achievement is on the neural network. Many people gave the likes of alpha go achievement on super human Go play.
  - throw555chip 3y ago
    > So yeah the achievement is on the neural network. It is? OK, tell them to completely clear the model of any angry bird original and clone code, data and assets that it scarfed from the Internet. It can retain scarfed definitions of angry and bird as well as scarfed information on making a 2D video game. Then tell the model to create the game and see what if anything it comes up with.
    - simonw 3y ago
      In terms of the code, I don't think it would be hard to create an Angry Bird clone of this quality using a GPT-4 scale model that had somehow had all knowledge of Angry Birds excluded from it. Most of the Angry Birds mechanics in this demo come from the underlying Matter 2D library. Relevant demo here: https://brm.io/matter-js/demo/#slingshot https://brm.io/matter-js/demo/#slingshot Honestly, that's most of the code part accounted for. The bigger question is the graphical assets. The developer shared their prompts for those here: https://twitter.com/javilopen/status/1719363587351740711 https://twitter.com/javilopen/status/1719363587351740711 Some of them make no mention of Angry Birds - "Wooden box. Large skeleton bone. Item assets sprites. White background. In-game sprites" - but others do: "Item assets sprites. Wooden planks. White background. In-game sprites. Similar to Angry Birds style" My hunch is that a skilled image prompter could still get to results that were right for this particular demo even with a model that had not seen Angry Birds assets before.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ben_w 3y ago
  We have exactly the same argument on a regular basis about whether or not we should say Musk is responsible for the success of Tesla; likewise with attributing the achievements of the USA[0] (or even just the government of the USA[0]) to the specific president of the time rather than to the nation as a whole. And before Musk was born, similar debates about describing Armstrong as the first man on the moon, given how even saying that inherently brushes aside the contributions of all those who worked on the mission without going to space. [0] In the UK it seems to be half on the Prime Minister and half the party of the age; I don't pay enough attention to the local opinion of politics elsewhere, though I will say the British press seems to blame everything Germany does on the German Chancellor personally…
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
tw061023 3y ago
Which, precisely, achievement? Show all prompts step-by-step and let people reproduce. Someone claims they did X using a couple of AI instruments, without sharing anything to prove the claim, and everyone is excited. I understand that the industry needs a new hype to keep going, but this is just pathetic.
- GaggiX 3y ago
  >Show all prompts step-by-step and let people reproduce. Read beyond the first tweet.
  - tw061023 3y ago
    I see six tweets in the thread, how many do you see? If you also see six tweets, please reproduce the result following instructions in the tweets and share the recording of you doing so. Graphics don't matter, let sprites be colored rectangles.
    - GaggiX 3y ago
      >Graphics don't matter, let sprites be colored rectangles. Why? Are the sprites and backgrounds too easy to recreate with MJ and Dall-e after you realized that the author actually provided the prompts for them?
      - tw061023 3y ago
        You misunderstood. I am trying to make the task easier for you. Just reproduce the code with LLM of your choosing. If you manage to actually do so - please feel free to add graphics with any other model.

breakfastduck 3y ago

Come on... I'm fairly cynical when it comes to AI but someone building a pretty complete game from scratch entirely using AI to generate the code and assets is a little beyond it 'making a cheap copy of something else'.

raytopia 3y ago
I mean while impressive all the art assets were very clearly knockoffs of Angry Bird's art.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
bluescrn 3y ago
If you fed a competent human massive quantities of human-created code and artwork, they could fairly quickly mash it up and produce a clone of a simple game, too. Have we created real AI, or merely 'AP' - Auto-Plagiarism?
- breakfastduck 3y ago
  I doubt it

tw061023 3y ago

Except it didn't.