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Sorry, but the parents' "values" are almost always some crackpot nonsense. Public schools at least aim for a measure of neutrality, beyond which children can de

Sorry, but the parents' "values" are almost always some crackpot nonsense. Public schools at least aim for a measure of neutrality, beyond which children can develop their own ideas. It's just strange to me that people are so intent on having their children mirror their own ideas. Have some humility, entertain the idea that you yourself may be wrong about everything, and let the kids figure out what they think for themselves. The public school gives them a reasonably neutral basis to do that, even as the different ideological fads come and go in the faculty and administration.

pdonis 3y ago
> the parents' "values" are almost always some crackpot nonsense "Almost always" is way, way too broad. Yes, some parents' values are crackpot nonsense, but many are not. One does not have to be a crackpot to prefer homeschooling to US public schools. Also, the values that the people who set up the US public school system explicitly said that system would indoctrinate children into are nothing to write home about either. > Have some humility Take your own advice. If anyone is being way overconfident here, it's you. > let the kids figure out what they think for themselves It seems to me that homeschooling is far more likely to let kids do this than public schools are. > The public school gives them a reasonably neutral basis to do that In the US? You must be joking. Public schools in the US are anything but neutral.
- mjx0 3y ago
  > > the parents' "values" are almost always some crackpot nonsense > > "Almost always" is way, way too broad. Yes, some parents' values are crackpot nonsense, but many are not. One does not have to be a crackpot to prefer homeschooling to US public schools. What are some examples of values that would lead one to prefer to homeschool their child, and are not "crackpot values"?
  - pdonis 3y ago
    > What are some examples of values that would lead one to prefer to homeschool their child, and are not "crackpot values"? Values such as the ones the US was founded on: things like individual liberty and deep distrust of governments, particularly governments wanting to indoctrinate children. And governments have done plenty to earn such distrust.
    - alexvoda 3y ago
      You don't get the easy way out with such a vague statement. Give some actual examples. Also, the US very much was not built on distrust of government because building the US meant building a government everyone would trust.
    - mjx0 3y ago
      > Values such as the ones the US was founded on: things like individual liberty and deep distrust of governments, While I can relate to the deep distrust of governments and have a strong belief in individual liberty, I don't understand the connection to homeschooling. Could you elaborate? > particularly governments wanting to indoctrinate children. And governments have done plenty to earn such distrust. Do you have any evidence of US public schools indoctrinating children en masse? I find this a rather extreme claim that I am unaware of convincing evidence of. Thus, I'm a position where, as a rational person, I must assume that the two most probable situations are that the claim is either false or I am woefully ignorant, and that I am ill equipped to engage with this without further exposition.
uticus 3y ago
> Public schools at least aim for a measure of neutrality i'm sorry, but surely you're joking? no schooling - especially public schools of today - is aiming for neutrality. neutrality is a fiction, and saying it is possible is lifting up something vacuous as the standard. schooling - especially schooling - is always done with a worldview or, if you like, an agenda. read up on the history of schooling. look up a bit on the history of education. the parents know this, the leaders know this, and i hope you'll be honest with yourself for a second and agree also. this idea of "schooling is neutral, we will sit above everything being taught as an impartial observer and present ideas without taking part or judging" is laughably foolish and impossible. teaching that it is possible is... well at least showing the hand. > you yourself may be wrong...let the kids figure out what they think your advice to "show some humility" would be better received if this wasn't such an unloving proposal crouched in an argument against an arrogant straw man. should children be micromanaged, told always what to do and think? that also is unloving. but to let them figure it out for themselves? surely you can't mean something so cruel as to tell them to just trust their individual judgements, rest of the culture (and authorities and parents) be damned. read your history, please, that is the short path to horrors not the way to the chosen land.

pdonis 3y ago

> the parents' "values" are almost always some crackpot nonsense "Almost always" is way, way too broad. Yes, some parents' values are crackpot nonsense, but many are not. One does not have to be a crackpot to prefer homeschooling to US public schools. Also, the values that the people who set up the US public school system explicitly said that system would indoctrinate children into are nothing to write home about either. > Have some humility Take your own advice. If anyone is being way overconfident here, it's you. > let the kids figure out what they think for themselves It seems to me that homeschooling is far more likely to let kids do this than public schools are. > The public school gives them a reasonably neutral basis to do that In the US? You must be joking. Public schools in the US are anything but neutral.

mjx0 3y ago
> > the parents' "values" are almost always some crackpot nonsense > > "Almost always" is way, way too broad. Yes, some parents' values are crackpot nonsense, but many are not. One does not have to be a crackpot to prefer homeschooling to US public schools. What are some examples of values that would lead one to prefer to homeschool their child, and are not "crackpot values"?
- pdonis 3y ago
  > What are some examples of values that would lead one to prefer to homeschool their child, and are not "crackpot values"? Values such as the ones the US was founded on: things like individual liberty and deep distrust of governments, particularly governments wanting to indoctrinate children. And governments have done plenty to earn such distrust.
  - alexvoda 3y ago
    You don't get the easy way out with such a vague statement. Give some actual examples. Also, the US very much was not built on distrust of government because building the US meant building a government everyone would trust.
  - mjx0 3y ago
    > Values such as the ones the US was founded on: things like individual liberty and deep distrust of governments, While I can relate to the deep distrust of governments and have a strong belief in individual liberty, I don't understand the connection to homeschooling. Could you elaborate? > particularly governments wanting to indoctrinate children. And governments have done plenty to earn such distrust. Do you have any evidence of US public schools indoctrinating children en masse? I find this a rather extreme claim that I am unaware of convincing evidence of. Thus, I'm a position where, as a rational person, I must assume that the two most probable situations are that the claim is either false or I am woefully ignorant, and that I am ill equipped to engage with this without further exposition.

uticus 3y ago

> Public schools at least aim for a measure of neutrality i'm sorry, but surely you're joking? no schooling - especially public schools of today - is aiming for neutrality. neutrality is a fiction, and saying it is possible is lifting up something vacuous as the standard. schooling - especially schooling - is always done with a worldview or, if you like, an agenda. read up on the history of schooling. look up a bit on the history of education. the parents know this, the leaders know this, and i hope you'll be honest with yourself for a second and agree also. this idea of "schooling is neutral, we will sit above everything being taught as an impartial observer and present ideas without taking part or judging" is laughably foolish and impossible. teaching that it is possible is... well at least showing the hand. > you yourself may be wrong...let the kids figure out what they think your advice to "show some humility" would be better received if this wasn't such an unloving proposal crouched in an argument against an arrogant straw man. should children be micromanaged, told always what to do and think? that also is unloving. but to let them figure it out for themselves? surely you can't mean something so cruel as to tell them to just trust their individual judgements, rest of the culture (and authorities and parents) be damned. read your history, please, that is the short path to horrors not the way to the chosen land.