3 ms·

Unless you like RAM. The Dev Kit comes with 32GB as standard.

entropicdrifter 3y ago
Fair point. For my workloads compute matters a lot more than RAM, but it's not as straightforward a trade-off as I was initially thinking
- klardotsh 3y ago
  Heh, and then I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum: I can happily get by with the CPU power offered by Skylake (or maybe even older) devices, but need 32GB RAM to be "mostly comfortable, usually" in my developer workflows. I could easily make use of 64GB. I'm considering putting 96-128GB in my next desktop build for some future-proofing. And yet laptop manufacturers seem hellbent on insisting 4GB is still acceptable to ship at all, and even still market 8GB machines to professionals. Folks, "professional software" like Slack takes hundreds of MB of RAM to even render the splash screen these days, it should be nearly criminal to ship a consumer device with less than 16GB now (alternatively, we should be taxing software companies for the negative externalities their waste produces, but that's a messy political fight)
  - worksonmine 3y ago
    > Folks, "professional software" like Slack takes hundreds of MB of RAM to even render the splash screen these days, it should be nearly criminal to ship a consumer device with less than 16GB now Maybe the problem is slack (and every other program hogging your RAM). Just because we can doesn't mean we should. I get that some workloads need RAM but consumers and not even every professional needs it. There are still jobs where you mainly work with an e-mail client, normal sized documents and a browser. Blame bad developers for developing terrible software, not the companies providing cheap computing for the masses. There can even be an environmental argument against it. I don't even bother downloading the Slack app, I use it on the web for work, but I refuse to install it. Not going to happen, why would I? You shouldn't either.
    - klardotsh 3y ago
      I don't use the app, I use a tab in Firefox. I even alluded to "alternatively, we could tax software companies for their waste". We're on the same team, bud, I just also have to accept the reality I currently live in: to pay the bills, I need a job (I'm not an indie developer yet, though one day I might like to be, and work on patronage or something!), and to do that job I have to use whatever the corporate chat app du jour is. Sadly, I will likely never be in a position to pitch anything for that; these decisions are made by non-tech-geeks for the most part, and so I'll rarely, if ever, get to use eg. Zulip or IRC in a corporate setting again. It's Slack, or Teams, or some other heavyweight mess, all the way down. And so I need the RAM to render it, and thus I need laptop manufacturers, and mini PC manufacturers, and etc., to get their shit together and either: (a) stop soldering RAM down, or (b) provide $LUDICROUS_NUMBER amount of it, and to stop pretending pittances of RAM are acceptable for professionals in nearly-2024.
      - worksonmine 3y ago
        The part I'm reacting most to was this: > it should be nearly criminal to ship a consumer device with less than 16GB now I assume you were just being hyperbole because now you're talking strictly professional devices. You can and should give your expertise when non techies have opinions, one could even argue it's in our job description. You seem to have just caved and buy more RAM. I took the other more painful route, scrapped every electron app, learned vim, and am very vocal about the issues at $DAY_JOB. If more people did the same would we be in this situation today? If you're compiling huge programs I get the need for ridiculous amounts of RAM, but consumers should absolutely be fine with 8GB, many even with 4GB. I work in VMs with 4GB daily and it's no problem using my normal stack, a few terminals, a browser window with a couple of tabs. It doesn't break a sweat so it's difficult to relate.

Fair point. For my workloads compute matters a lot more than RAM, but it's not as straightforward a trade-off as I was initially thinking

klardotsh 3y ago
Heh, and then I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum: I can happily get by with the CPU power offered by Skylake (or maybe even older) devices, but need 32GB RAM to be "mostly comfortable, usually" in my developer workflows. I could easily make use of 64GB. I'm considering putting 96-128GB in my next desktop build for some future-proofing. And yet laptop manufacturers seem hellbent on insisting 4GB is still acceptable to ship at all, and even still market 8GB machines to professionals. Folks, "professional software" like Slack takes hundreds of MB of RAM to even render the splash screen these days, it should be nearly criminal to ship a consumer device with less than 16GB now (alternatively, we should be taxing software companies for the negative externalities their waste produces, but that's a messy political fight)
- worksonmine 3y ago
  > Folks, "professional software" like Slack takes hundreds of MB of RAM to even render the splash screen these days, it should be nearly criminal to ship a consumer device with less than 16GB now Maybe the problem is slack (and every other program hogging your RAM). Just because we can doesn't mean we should. I get that some workloads need RAM but consumers and not even every professional needs it. There are still jobs where you mainly work with an e-mail client, normal sized documents and a browser. Blame bad developers for developing terrible software, not the companies providing cheap computing for the masses. There can even be an environmental argument against it. I don't even bother downloading the Slack app, I use it on the web for work, but I refuse to install it. Not going to happen, why would I? You shouldn't either.
  - klardotsh 3y ago
    I don't use the app, I use a tab in Firefox. I even alluded to "alternatively, we could tax software companies for their waste". We're on the same team, bud, I just also have to accept the reality I currently live in: to pay the bills, I need a job (I'm not an indie developer yet, though one day I might like to be, and work on patronage or something!), and to do that job I have to use whatever the corporate chat app du jour is. Sadly, I will likely never be in a position to pitch anything for that; these decisions are made by non-tech-geeks for the most part, and so I'll rarely, if ever, get to use eg. Zulip or IRC in a corporate setting again. It's Slack, or Teams, or some other heavyweight mess, all the way down. And so I need the RAM to render it, and thus I need laptop manufacturers, and mini PC manufacturers, and etc., to get their shit together and either: (a) stop soldering RAM down, or (b) provide $LUDICROUS_NUMBER amount of it, and to stop pretending pittances of RAM are acceptable for professionals in nearly-2024.
    - worksonmine 3y ago
      The part I'm reacting most to was this: > it should be nearly criminal to ship a consumer device with less than 16GB now I assume you were just being hyperbole because now you're talking strictly professional devices. You can and should give your expertise when non techies have opinions, one could even argue it's in our job description. You seem to have just caved and buy more RAM. I took the other more painful route, scrapped every electron app, learned vim, and am very vocal about the issues at $DAY_JOB. If more people did the same would we be in this situation today? If you're compiling huge programs I get the need for ridiculous amounts of RAM, but consumers should absolutely be fine with 8GB, many even with 4GB. I work in VMs with 4GB daily and it's no problem using my normal stack, a few terminals, a browser window with a couple of tabs. It doesn't break a sweat so it's difficult to relate.