4 ms·

> And so if a "peer" of theirs were to explain the method to someone who didn't purchase it then it would be viewed as a dick move since it is affecting the liv

> And so if a "peer" of theirs were to explain the method to someone who didn't purchase it then it would be viewed as a dick move since it is affecting the livelihood of a fellow performer. Yep that's exactly how I interpreted it ... not because people are adhering to some sacred oath given deep in cavern in a secret location ... just that someone invented something new and unique, they are rightfully earning some money from that effort, and you could potentially destroy the whole thing simply by posting too much information about it. As you said, that would certainly be a "dick move", and since a lot of people don't want be that, they don't do that. In the end it seems to be pretty effective. I still want answers to some of the tricks that I've seen on Penn and Teller's show. Some of them do come across as impossible no matter what way I try to think about it. Dani DaOrtiz comes immediatly to mind ... no clue how it's done but he's pretty funny. This particular routine has various elements that each seem to be impossible. And honestly, I don't want to know how it's done. It's magic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_KcQt0z-eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_KcQt0z-eE

Marazan 3y ago
DaOrtiz is a primal force. I have bought instructional videos from him so I know the fundamentals of that routine. Knowing how it is done makes it _more_ impressive to me. It is incredible skill that truly only very few people could master and DaOrtiz makes it look effortless.
- EMM_386 3y ago
  Yes, while I "know" that what is going on is a combination of extremely precise, perfectly executed actions with cards combined with psychological stuff, it's the effortlessness many times, this routine in particular, that is incredible. The whole thing comes across as one huge free choice he is never in control of ... "stop where? here, or there?" .... "are you sure? you can change. change?". Apparently, there are ways to maintain control while still saying things like "whatever you want" all the time. Oh, and joking around, because clearly such things don't require any focus!
  - ethbr1 3y ago
    > Apparently, there are ways to maintain control while still saying things like "whatever you want" all the time. Afaict, a lot of them exploit the asymmetry of initiative. The audience member doesn't know how many times a magician is "supposed" to ask or do X. The magician, on the other hand, has free reign to choose when and how often to do so. Leveraging this + secret information (e.g. the current ordering of cards in a deck due to a perfect shuffle) = magic But as others say, the trick is making the above look convincingly effortless and spur of the moment.
- pvitz 3y ago
  > Knowing how it is done makes it _more_ impressive to me. I agree to an extent: The choice of the number in his ACAANs makes me always wonder how he would recover from a "bad" spectator. What always impressed me even more was Tamariz' handling of the Mnemonica stack. For example, he could ask to name a card and could immediately bring it to the top of the stack with one cut in a second.
gspencley 3y ago
Since you brought up Dani Dortiz, he is a "magician's magician." And if you want to learn what he does and how he does it, he is an open book. A true gem of a human being and someone we all look up to in the magic community. He really values sharing knowledge and teaching. Fair warning, his way of performing and executing his routines is not easy to learn and master. There is no "one single" method that explains an entire routine of his. He stacks methods, as all good magicians do. There are layers and layers misdirection, getting one or two moves ahead of the audience at every stage, using applied psychology with a fair share of sleight of hand in between. That's why what he does seems so freakin' impossible. But he is very open about teaching it all. So if you (or anyone) genuinely wants to understand how that routine works, he published it. You can buy it here: https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/card-magic/dani-daortiz-fool-us/ https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/card-magic/dani-daortiz-fo... Again, not beginner stuff. But his books and videos are so great for taking card magic to the next level. He was a student of Juan Tamariz, who is another one of the greatest card magicians of all time ... and who also published so much on magic theory and applied psychology and is an open book when it comes to teaching new magicians.
- EMM_386 3y ago
  Interesting, thanks. I got the feeling just from watching it that he is obviously a master of the psychological side of it. It comes across as completely effortless, even bordering on onfocused ... as if at any point he could literally say "wait what was I doing?" and be serious. But he's clearly mentally many steps in front of whatever you are seeing. I probably won't be a customer, as curious as I am. I have read how other, far less impressive tricks are done, and they require a unique combination of skills, none of which I have. That doesn't really matter, as I am not nor will be a performing magician. It's still interesting to learn about, but most leave me realizing the "secret" to that trick is "expertly do these very difficult things precisely right while always being on top of the psychological game, while at the same time acting as if you are just having a little fun". Realizing that what you are seeing is a masterclass in all of those things at the same time is impressive though. I just watched it again after noting all of this. I still declare parts of it impossible!
jwiz 3y ago
Donny Osmond's transformation from hammy "playing along with the show" to astounded "wtf is going on here?" is hilarious.

Marazan 3y ago

DaOrtiz is a primal force. I have bought instructional videos from him so I know the fundamentals of that routine. Knowing how it is done makes it _more_ impressive to me. It is incredible skill that truly only very few people could master and DaOrtiz makes it look effortless.

EMM_386 3y ago
Yes, while I "know" that what is going on is a combination of extremely precise, perfectly executed actions with cards combined with psychological stuff, it's the effortlessness many times, this routine in particular, that is incredible. The whole thing comes across as one huge free choice he is never in control of ... "stop where? here, or there?" .... "are you sure? you can change. change?". Apparently, there are ways to maintain control while still saying things like "whatever you want" all the time. Oh, and joking around, because clearly such things don't require any focus!
- ethbr1 3y ago
  > Apparently, there are ways to maintain control while still saying things like "whatever you want" all the time. Afaict, a lot of them exploit the asymmetry of initiative. The audience member doesn't know how many times a magician is "supposed" to ask or do X. The magician, on the other hand, has free reign to choose when and how often to do so. Leveraging this + secret information (e.g. the current ordering of cards in a deck due to a perfect shuffle) = magic But as others say, the trick is making the above look convincingly effortless and spur of the moment.
pvitz 3y ago
> Knowing how it is done makes it _more_ impressive to me. I agree to an extent: The choice of the number in his ACAANs makes me always wonder how he would recover from a "bad" spectator. What always impressed me even more was Tamariz' handling of the Mnemonica stack. For example, he could ask to name a card and could immediately bring it to the top of the stack with one cut in a second.

gspencley 3y ago

Since you brought up Dani Dortiz, he is a "magician's magician." And if you want to learn what he does and how he does it, he is an open book. A true gem of a human being and someone we all look up to in the magic community. He really values sharing knowledge and teaching. Fair warning, his way of performing and executing his routines is not easy to learn and master. There is no "one single" method that explains an entire routine of his. He stacks methods, as all good magicians do. There are layers and layers misdirection, getting one or two moves ahead of the audience at every stage, using applied psychology with a fair share of sleight of hand in between. That's why what he does seems so freakin' impossible. But he is very open about teaching it all. So if you (or anyone) genuinely wants to understand how that routine works, he published it. You can buy it here: https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/card-magic/dani-daortiz-fool-us/ https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/card-magic/dani-daortiz-fo... Again, not beginner stuff. But his books and videos are so great for taking card magic to the next level. He was a student of Juan Tamariz, who is another one of the greatest card magicians of all time ... and who also published so much on magic theory and applied psychology and is an open book when it comes to teaching new magicians.

EMM_386 3y ago
Interesting, thanks. I got the feeling just from watching it that he is obviously a master of the psychological side of it. It comes across as completely effortless, even bordering on onfocused ... as if at any point he could literally say "wait what was I doing?" and be serious. But he's clearly mentally many steps in front of whatever you are seeing. I probably won't be a customer, as curious as I am. I have read how other, far less impressive tricks are done, and they require a unique combination of skills, none of which I have. That doesn't really matter, as I am not nor will be a performing magician. It's still interesting to learn about, but most leave me realizing the "secret" to that trick is "expertly do these very difficult things precisely right while always being on top of the psychological game, while at the same time acting as if you are just having a little fun". Realizing that what you are seeing is a masterclass in all of those things at the same time is impressive though. I just watched it again after noting all of this. I still declare parts of it impossible!

jwiz 3y ago

Donny Osmond's transformation from hammy "playing along with the show" to astounded "wtf is going on here?" is hilarious.