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If we let this idea that "AI training data usage has no compensation for rights owners" to be become ensconced in the legal system, then all human endeavour wil

If we let this idea that "AI training data usage has no compensation for rights owners" to be become ensconced in the legal system, then all human endeavour will become fair game to be acquired by someone to make a Machine Intelligence out of, and remove you completely out of the profit loop of your own work. This will happen in every industry and occupation, one by one. Is this what you think is desirable? The alternative is perversely simple: PAY for the right to use training data.

ben_w 3y ago
> This will happen in every industry and occupation, one by one. And still will even if they (for any value of "they") do pay. Unless… do you want them to pay the entire future economic value that, say, all programmers including myself might have added if we weren't about to be made redundant by the next coding LLM? Because the historical analogy there is getting Raspberry Pi to pay out the entire global GDP for each Pi Zero, on the grounds of that model being able to do arithmetic as fast as the entire world, even if the entire world had been paid to work in the obsolete job role of "computer", after having been trained to operate reliably at the speed of the current world record holder. > Is this what you think is desirable? Post-scarcity economics, AKA "fully automated luxury communism" (not the book of the same name): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-scarcity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-scarcity
- kranke155 3y ago
  is that the direction we're going in right now? Or are we moving towards techno feudalism?
  - ben_w 3y ago
    More anarchy than the feudalism for the moment. The main Stable Diffusion models themselves are licensed under Creative ML OpenRAIL-M, and freely available third-party models exist; OpenAI gets stick for not making their models downloadable (at least GPT-x does, though nobody seems to care too much about them keeping the DALL•E 2/3 models private), other players are making and distributing other LLMs of varying quality. That said, we do also have actual reasons to be concerned about this remaining anarchic (though a lot of people very loudly scoff at them), so who knows what the future will bring on that axis.

ben_w 3y ago

> This will happen in every industry and occupation, one by one. And still will even if they (for any value of "they") do pay. Unless… do you want them to pay the entire future economic value that, say, all programmers including myself might have added if we weren't about to be made redundant by the next coding LLM? Because the historical analogy there is getting Raspberry Pi to pay out the entire global GDP for each Pi Zero, on the grounds of that model being able to do arithmetic as fast as the entire world, even if the entire world had been paid to work in the obsolete job role of "computer", after having been trained to operate reliably at the speed of the current world record holder. > Is this what you think is desirable? Post-scarcity economics, AKA "fully automated luxury communism" (not the book of the same name): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-scarcity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-scarcity

kranke155 3y ago
is that the direction we're going in right now? Or are we moving towards techno feudalism?
- ben_w 3y ago
  More anarchy than the feudalism for the moment. The main Stable Diffusion models themselves are licensed under Creative ML OpenRAIL-M, and freely available third-party models exist; OpenAI gets stick for not making their models downloadable (at least GPT-x does, though nobody seems to care too much about them keeping the DALL•E 2/3 models private), other players are making and distributing other LLMs of varying quality. That said, we do also have actual reasons to be concerned about this remaining anarchic (though a lot of people very loudly scoff at them), so who knows what the future will bring on that axis.