7 ms·

What this is talking about is tools. If I have a 17mm combination wrench, that will work exactly the same way indefinitely. Nobody, hopefully, will upgrade "1

What this is talking about is tools. If I have a 17mm combination wrench, that will work exactly the same way indefinitely. Nobody, hopefully, will upgrade "17mm bolt" to "17mm bolt v2.0" that is actually 17.1mm and make my wrench not fit. Old software that does a specific thing, simply and standalone, can be a tool. Modern software, with a mindboggling variety of external dependencies, takes real effort to maintain in the "tool" model as dependencies change or retire. Take, for example an old video game that was fully debugged and released on physical media that can still be played (without even a physical machine, on archive.org) the same way. Versus a no longer maintained but treasured Android app or device, which falls behind and becomes unusable. Example: An old Android tablet that the kids use, was able to play Youtube videos. Then, somehow, it updated itself to a new Youtube version that's no longer compatible with it and now it can't, because Chrome has the same problem, and the native browser on there is too old to play web Youtube. Yet the device is still sound, still holds good battery charge and so on.

thfuran 3y ago
>Take, for example an old video game that was fully debugged and released on physical media A bug free game? I wish.
PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
So you have a 17mm wrench. It's awesome, feels great in the hand, solid on the nuts/bolts. It's a keeper and a winner. Then one day you need to 17mm socket wrench. A year later, you find yourself needing a 17mm deep socket wrench. The year after that, you've got a scenario where the deep socket wrench would work, but requires a cheater bar, and there's no space, so you need a drive adapter to connect it to an impact wrench. The following year, you start working on a vehicle where torque matters, and you need all of the above tools to work with a torque wrench. 6 months later, you realize you got a torque wrench that only goes up to 80 (units-of-torque) and now you need 100. ---- The difference with physical tools is that nobody will raise an eyebrow at you having all these variants of your 17mm wrench. By contrast, having all these variants of (to use TFA's example) a word processor would seem quite odd.
- slingnow 3y ago
  I'm not clear what point you're trying to make here. The original point is describing the interface between the 17mm tool and the 17mm bolt, not all of the other tools that could possibly interface with a 17mm bolt. Your other examples are a bit weird, because you're changing it from a wrench to a socket wrench. The interface is quite different: Wrench -> Bolt Driver -> Socket -> Bolt Not to mention, all of your other examples illustrate that there's a perfectly fine interface between the 17mm socket and all of the various ways to drive it. The 17mm socket is complete software.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    I don't agree with this characterization. The GP said "that will work exactly the same way indefinitely." which is correct, but doesn't capture the many subtleties of where and how you need to interact with a 17mm nut or bolt. The owner of a 17mm combo wrench starts out with what appears to be the perfect tool for the job, but then comes to understand that the scope of interacting with a 17mm nut or bolt is wider than originally understood. They end up with a toolbox that is much more complex when it comes to "interacting with 17mm nuts and bolts" than they originally expected. And so it goes with software too, not always, but extremely often.
    - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
      yeah! that one time my toilet stayed the same for 5 WHOLE years, but you know, there are totally toilets with bidet's, toilets that are motion sensored, tall toilets, short toilets, toilets meant to squat over, ad nauseum. so for this reason it's totally ok for YOUR toilet to need be replaced every few months! yeah, that conclusion absolutely follows from the premise. or not, and maybe the other posters point is that there being other needs and variations doesn't mean a specific tool for a specific needs must always change.
      - MarkusWandel 3y ago
        At least the toilet:plumbing interface is standardized though!!
callalex 3y ago
Even that happens. Consider for example the shit-show that is JIS vs Philips vs PoziDriv for plus-shaped screw heads.
tonyedgecombe 3y ago
>If I have a 17mm combination wrench, that will work exactly the same way indefinitely. I had to transition my tools from imperial to metric in the early eighties.

thfuran 3y ago

>Take, for example an old video game that was fully debugged and released on physical media A bug free game? I wish.

PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago

So you have a 17mm wrench. It's awesome, feels great in the hand, solid on the nuts/bolts. It's a keeper and a winner. Then one day you need to 17mm socket wrench. A year later, you find yourself needing a 17mm deep socket wrench. The year after that, you've got a scenario where the deep socket wrench would work, but requires a cheater bar, and there's no space, so you need a drive adapter to connect it to an impact wrench. The following year, you start working on a vehicle where torque matters, and you need all of the above tools to work with a torque wrench. 6 months later, you realize you got a torque wrench that only goes up to 80 (units-of-torque) and now you need 100. ---- The difference with physical tools is that nobody will raise an eyebrow at you having all these variants of your 17mm wrench. By contrast, having all these variants of (to use TFA's example) a word processor would seem quite odd.

slingnow 3y ago
I'm not clear what point you're trying to make here. The original point is describing the interface between the 17mm tool and the 17mm bolt, not all of the other tools that could possibly interface with a 17mm bolt. Your other examples are a bit weird, because you're changing it from a wrench to a socket wrench. The interface is quite different: Wrench -> Bolt Driver -> Socket -> Bolt Not to mention, all of your other examples illustrate that there's a perfectly fine interface between the 17mm socket and all of the various ways to drive it. The 17mm socket is complete software.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  I don't agree with this characterization. The GP said "that will work exactly the same way indefinitely." which is correct, but doesn't capture the many subtleties of where and how you need to interact with a 17mm nut or bolt. The owner of a 17mm combo wrench starts out with what appears to be the perfect tool for the job, but then comes to understand that the scope of interacting with a 17mm nut or bolt is wider than originally understood. They end up with a toolbox that is much more complex when it comes to "interacting with 17mm nuts and bolts" than they originally expected. And so it goes with software too, not always, but extremely often.
  - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
    yeah! that one time my toilet stayed the same for 5 WHOLE years, but you know, there are totally toilets with bidet's, toilets that are motion sensored, tall toilets, short toilets, toilets meant to squat over, ad nauseum. so for this reason it's totally ok for YOUR toilet to need be replaced every few months! yeah, that conclusion absolutely follows from the premise. or not, and maybe the other posters point is that there being other needs and variations doesn't mean a specific tool for a specific needs must always change.
    - MarkusWandel 3y ago
      At least the toilet:plumbing interface is standardized though!!

callalex 3y ago

Even that happens. Consider for example the shit-show that is JIS vs Philips vs PoziDriv for plus-shaped screw heads.

tonyedgecombe 3y ago

>If I have a 17mm combination wrench, that will work exactly the same way indefinitely. I had to transition my tools from imperial to metric in the early eighties.