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For this anecdote I can provide you with about 20 anecdotes that are the complete opposite in nature. There is no regulation, but does there need to be? Homesch

For this anecdote I can provide you with about 20 anecdotes that are the complete opposite in nature. There is no regulation, but does there need to be? Homeschoolers take the same standardized tests as everyone else - that's about as regulatory as it needs to be (and even that's questionable).

rjbwork 3y ago
This is just not the case. In many states it's nearly completely unregulated, and the home school lobby is working diligently to strip even those regulations.
- colpabar 3y ago
  You didn't answer his question - why are regulations on teaching your own children in your own home so necessary?
  - 303uru 3y ago
    Stripping myself of my morals and ethics, sure. Maybe I don’t need to give a shit whether someone else’s kid has any future. I’d rather care.
    - brodouevencode 3y ago
      This assumes government schools has everyone's morals and ethics in mind.
    - whatshisface 3y ago
      What we see in the education debate is a consistent lack of care for the kids who get ahead (why'd they get ahead of my kids?) and a consistent care for the kids being left behind, and that produces a trend to regulation and centralization that extinguishes anything good. The same forces that take children away from highly dedicated parents and put them into underfunded districts take advanced course tracks and the creativity of teachers away from them when they get there.
      - eduction 3y ago
        This is an insightful way of framing things. It had not occurred to me to look at it this way. It describes my own issues with school growing up and my own interest in homeschooling — the chance to provide individualized instruction and to tap into play and creativity. Schools can provide a baseline but for bright, motivated students they can be like a straightjacket. It's interesting and I suppose logical that the arguments against homeschooling focus on the idea that the practice dangerously removes that baseline. (I don't find those arguments particularly convincing because I had troubled peers who I went to public school with, and the school system helped precisely none of them substantially improve their lives.)
        whatshisface 3y ago
        On top of that there is an element of "liability control" where putting troubled kids in the same unsuccessful system as the other troubled kids makes the kids the problem, while putting them in a different unsuccessful system, which counts as an action in the non-utilitarian trolley problem ethics of our culture, and leads to some fraction of blame falling on the individual who tried to change the outcome.
  - CryptoBanker 3y ago
    Because one day those children are going to grow up, leave the home, and interact with other members of society. At that point it becomes a public interest.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
      > At that point it becomes a public interest. This doesn't seem to be so self-evident. Why do I care about the education of those around me?
      - alistairSH 3y ago
        An educated populace... ...generates more economic activity ...understands basic civics and government
        bigstrat2003 3y ago
        > ...understands basic civics and government The public school system isn't doing that for our fellow citizens already. I fail to see why it would be worse if the failure happens at home rather than in a government building.
        alistairSH 3y ago
        My comment was a direct response to the question "why should I care if my neighbors are educated?" And that's a fair criticism of some public schools. And some home-schoolers. And probably some private schools.
      - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
        Because they're going to be your neighbors, your co-workers, and your fellow voters. That's also why you care about the state of the public school system, even if you have no kids (or they don't attend public school).
      - illirik 3y ago
        A well-educated population is generally considered to be a good thing. That’s why schooling is compulsory in almost every country in the world.
  - rjbwork 3y ago
    Because one of the biggest ways that child abuse is detected and abated is by interaction between students and children. Isolating children in insular communities is a really great way to abuse them and hide the evidence of it. Regular interaction with non-custodial adults provides more opportunities for child abuse to be uncovered and stopped. You can go on youtube and hear myriad testimonials from former homeschooled kids that were abused for years on end. And nobody knew. Nobody even had a chance to know.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    Because children aren’t parental property and their education is a obligation parents have to them, not a service for the benefit of the parent. Standards for education of children in the home are needed for the same reason as other standards for care, conditions, and treatment of children in the home are.
watwut 3y ago
Homeschooling famillies do not do the same tests. And especially families whose kids are less likely to ace those tests will avoid them when they are voluntary.
- daddylongstroke 3y ago
  In most states, they absolutely do the same tests. We are, most often, required to by the state. The tests are provided (mostly) by the same two companies that provide the testing materials for the majority of end of year public school testing.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> Homeschoolers take the same standardized tests as everyone else Varies a lot by states. Some states have no assessment requirement for honeschooled students at all, some have a requirement to keep a portfolio which may or may not be reviewed, some have an standardized testing requirement with more flexibility and lower frequency than public schools, and some have homeschool students take the same standardized tests as everyone else. https://education.uslegal.com/homeschooling/homeschooling-laws-by-state/ https://education.uslegal.com/homeschooling/homeschooling-la...

rjbwork 3y ago

This is just not the case. In many states it's nearly completely unregulated, and the home school lobby is working diligently to strip even those regulations.

colpabar 3y ago
You didn't answer his question - why are regulations on teaching your own children in your own home so necessary?
- 303uru 3y ago
  Stripping myself of my morals and ethics, sure. Maybe I don’t need to give a shit whether someone else’s kid has any future. I’d rather care.
  - brodouevencode 3y ago
    This assumes government schools has everyone's morals and ethics in mind.
  - whatshisface 3y ago
    What we see in the education debate is a consistent lack of care for the kids who get ahead (why'd they get ahead of my kids?) and a consistent care for the kids being left behind, and that produces a trend to regulation and centralization that extinguishes anything good. The same forces that take children away from highly dedicated parents and put them into underfunded districts take advanced course tracks and the creativity of teachers away from them when they get there.
    - eduction 3y ago
      This is an insightful way of framing things. It had not occurred to me to look at it this way. It describes my own issues with school growing up and my own interest in homeschooling — the chance to provide individualized instruction and to tap into play and creativity. Schools can provide a baseline but for bright, motivated students they can be like a straightjacket. It's interesting and I suppose logical that the arguments against homeschooling focus on the idea that the practice dangerously removes that baseline. (I don't find those arguments particularly convincing because I had troubled peers who I went to public school with, and the school system helped precisely none of them substantially improve their lives.)
      - whatshisface 3y ago
        On top of that there is an element of "liability control" where putting troubled kids in the same unsuccessful system as the other troubled kids makes the kids the problem, while putting them in a different unsuccessful system, which counts as an action in the non-utilitarian trolley problem ethics of our culture, and leads to some fraction of blame falling on the individual who tried to change the outcome.
- CryptoBanker 3y ago
  Because one day those children are going to grow up, leave the home, and interact with other members of society. At that point it becomes a public interest.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
    > At that point it becomes a public interest. This doesn't seem to be so self-evident. Why do I care about the education of those around me?
    - alistairSH 3y ago
      An educated populace... ...generates more economic activity ...understands basic civics and government
      - bigstrat2003 3y ago
        > ...understands basic civics and government The public school system isn't doing that for our fellow citizens already. I fail to see why it would be worse if the failure happens at home rather than in a government building.
        alistairSH 3y ago
        My comment was a direct response to the question "why should I care if my neighbors are educated?" And that's a fair criticism of some public schools. And some home-schoolers. And probably some private schools.
    - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
      Because they're going to be your neighbors, your co-workers, and your fellow voters. That's also why you care about the state of the public school system, even if you have no kids (or they don't attend public school).
    - illirik 3y ago
      A well-educated population is generally considered to be a good thing. That’s why schooling is compulsory in almost every country in the world.
- rjbwork 3y ago
  Because one of the biggest ways that child abuse is detected and abated is by interaction between students and children. Isolating children in insular communities is a really great way to abuse them and hide the evidence of it. Regular interaction with non-custodial adults provides more opportunities for child abuse to be uncovered and stopped. You can go on youtube and hear myriad testimonials from former homeschooled kids that were abused for years on end. And nobody knew. Nobody even had a chance to know.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  Because children aren’t parental property and their education is a obligation parents have to them, not a service for the benefit of the parent. Standards for education of children in the home are needed for the same reason as other standards for care, conditions, and treatment of children in the home are.

watwut 3y ago

Homeschooling famillies do not do the same tests. And especially families whose kids are less likely to ace those tests will avoid them when they are voluntary.

daddylongstroke 3y ago
In most states, they absolutely do the same tests. We are, most often, required to by the state. The tests are provided (mostly) by the same two companies that provide the testing materials for the majority of end of year public school testing.

dragonwriter 3y ago

> Homeschoolers take the same standardized tests as everyone else Varies a lot by states. Some states have no assessment requirement for honeschooled students at all, some have a requirement to keep a portfolio which may or may not be reviewed, some have an standardized testing requirement with more flexibility and lower frequency than public schools, and some have homeschool students take the same standardized tests as everyone else. https://education.uslegal.com/homeschooling/homeschooling-laws-by-state/ https://education.uslegal.com/homeschooling/homeschooling-la...