5 ms·

We're homeschooling our kids. I was pretty against it at first, but seeing our education system degrade to the state it is today, and being honest about my scho

by burcs 3y ago

We're homeschooling our kids. I was pretty against it at first, but seeing our education system degrade to the state it is today, and being honest about my schooling experience definitely opened me up to it. I think the biggest argument for schooling is the socialization aspect of it. I don't know about the rest of you but I was bullied pretty relentlessly throughout grade school and it completely changed my personality. I became much more of a loner, reserved, quiet, and just defeated. I'm still working through some of that baggage 30 years later. That's not the socialization that I want for my kids. I work remotely, my wife freelances. We have lots of friends and family with children our kids age, why not surround them by people who love them?

keiferski 3y ago
I think I have basically the same opinion. It's not so much that I believe homeschooling is amazing in-itself, but rather that the public education system has so clearly deteriorated that it seems borderline criminal to subject your kids to it. The question for me, personally, is private school vs. homeschooling. If you can avoid many of the downsides of public education via choosing the right private school (and being able to afford it), I do wonder if that would be superior to most homeschooling setups.
- wizerdrobe 3y ago
  We didn’t go full home-school, but my wife and I intentionally left our city to go raise our kids out in a rural area so they could grow up in and around nature and with a nice, small school district that smokes anything we had back in the city. Better test scores, smaller classes, minimal major discipline issues. Prior to moving, our only “good” option for realistic schooling was putting our children in a local Catholic school with high fees. Given our state is in the midst of legal battles with activist groups fighting to overturn a recent school-choice voucher program, seemed moving was the safe choice. For the life of me, I can’t understand why anyone but a public-sector teacher being finally held to account would fight against giving parents options to place their kids in a school they see fit.
  - boojums 3y ago
    I like collecting examples that confirm/deny my biases. Would you mind sharing the demographic differences between the two schools?
  - nemo44x 3y ago
    > For the life of me, I can’t understand why anyone but a public-sector teacher being finally held to account would fight against giving parents options to place their kids in a school they see fit. Because they want to indoctrinate your kids. A lot of teachers get into the profession because of a compelling social justice urge, much like a missionary from the church. When they are outside the public school system they are harder to reach. Additionally, the more kids in the system equates to more political power for the teachers unions since they get to expand.
  - derivagral 3y ago
    After going through something like this[0], it seems similar to what we do in tech. Try the fancy new thing! Don't worry that the creators aren't particularly qualified and mostly want to sell you stuff. Hard to disentangle good change from bad; some of the initiative is good, but negative feedback seems to have been translated to "ignore those haters, they have no valid points." https://features.apmreports.org/sold-a-story/ https://features.apmreports.org/sold-a-story/
- standardUser 3y ago
  I don't understand this talk about "the public education system". Every school and school district is going to be different. Some are great and others are not. I understand if you live in an area with middling-to-poor schools, but lots of people live near great public schools.
  - keiferski 3y ago
    I’m sure there are good public schools, but my experience and the experience of everyone I’ve ever known has not been positive. Combined with policies like California’s [1], I don’t think it’s unreasonable to just be skeptical of most American public education. 1. https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/california-needs-real-math-education https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/california-needs-real-math-edu...
  - rcpt 3y ago
    Ridiculous amounts of standardized testing and curriculums designed to optimize for that was the main thing we hated. Seems to be a thing everywhere. When I was a kid teachers had a bit more freedom to decide what to teach but now you teach to the test or lose your funding.
    - jewayne 3y ago
      Teachers absolutely should teach to the test. And individual teachers really shouldn't be in the business of deciding what to teach, either. Why is there an assumption that what is on the test is inherently worthless but every individual teacher is qualified to design an entire curriculum?
      - standardUser 3y ago
        The educators that stood out in my life were the ones who were passionate and interesting and added their own experiences and perspectives. We have somewhere between 40-60 teachers over the course of a typical public education. I'd hope at least a good cross-section of those bring something to the table other than rote explanations of test questions.
      - 3y ago
CodeWriter23 3y ago
Check for homeschooling groups in your area. Meet and talk to parents, you’ll find out all about it including resource centers for when your child needs to learn topics where you are weak. We’ve been homeschooling for 7 years. Our child’s social experience has increased both quantitatively and qualitatively. From few/constantly bullied physically and sexually, to many/nice thoughtful friends who will jump in and defend her instead of filming her, should things go down. She’s also a leader, does service for her community, and (proud papa moment here) at her 4th debate competition (3 per year in this league) won 9th place speaker and 3rd place team. Her team swept the series of 4 rounds. The only way their team could do that…wait for it…lots of practice aka socialization. The “socialization” boogeyman is one of the most overplayed red herrings about homeschooling IMO.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
I think anyone who has been seriously bullied would definitely agree - being bullied as a child can severely fuck up the rest of your life. Sure, many/most eventually move on, but like you, 30 years later I've got the therapy bills to show for it. Sometimes I feel a little guilty feeling envious about my nieces' upbringing. They went to private school that ran from 1-8 grade, so they essentially skipped the middle school experience that was detrimental to so many. Honestly, I believe middle school as I experienced it (a whole bunch of elementary "feeder" schools that fed into one giant middle school for 7-8 grade) is the dumbest invention in the history of humanity. It sticks together kids, at wildly different stages of development, in an unfamiliar environment where everyone is trying to find their place in the social hierarchy - Lord of the Flies should have been set in middle school. Much better IMO to just have kids stay together 1-8th grade, and by then most folks are at least well into puberty by the time they get to high school. Not saying of course bullying doesn't happen in high school, but I think by then more kids are able to find their "tribe", so if they are bullied they have friends to fall back on (again, I'm of course painting with broad strokes).
- vacuity 3y ago
  I've heard a professor describe high school the same way. We throw a bunch of hormonal, identity-discovering, stressed teenagers together and then wonder why incidents happen.
akira2501 3y ago
> That's not the socialization that I want for my kids. On the other hand, I'd definitely want my children to be familiar with it. Bullying is not something isolated to schools. I've seen it in nearly every social and political situation that exists at nearly every age group. In my estimation people are getting worse at identifying it and collectively we're getting worse at punishing it.
- doubled112 3y ago
  Dealing with bullies is something you'll definitely see later in life. I'm glad I learned how to shut it down quick or avoid it altogether earlier rather than later. Being let out into the world thinking everybody loves you sounds like a terrifying idea too.
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    What do you do to quickly shut down an adult bully?
    - KoftaBob 3y ago
      Sleep with their wife
      - doubled112 3y ago
        Well that escalated quickly. Are you also taking photos for blackmail purposes? That'd very possibly shut the whole thing down.
    - doubled112 3y ago
      It really depends. If it's a peer in a more professional setting, simply calling them out generally makes you less a target, especially if calling out their behaviour is done in a group setting. It comes down to the old "stand up for yourself" rule we've all heard. Also, calm confidence tends to work with adults too. If the bullying is coming from above, time to move on. I have zero patience for it, and there's likely no stopping them. Also, I'm not suggesting you take them outside, although I know a couple guys who've been through fights between coworkers in their workplaces. Grown men (in their 30s) sure can take a long time to grow.
plussed_reader 3y ago
Care to name the region of your 'degrading system' with your anecdote?
arrowsmith 3y ago
> I work remotely, my wife freelances. Are you both working full-time? What's the arrangement? How do you fit the homeschooling in around your jobs? My wife and I have talked about this a lot. We don't have kids yet, but we're very open to the idea of homeschooling when the time comes. I'm not sure how we'll do it though - we're in a better position than most (we make good money and both wfh) but there are only so many hours in the day. I'm interested to know how other people make it work.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  Kids are in school for 5 or so hours per day, but for many kids (especially those who are bright), they are learning for perhaps 1 hour of that time. If you can take an hour to teach them something, and another 10 minutes to assess their progress later in the day, they will learn at least as much as they would have in school. Of course, the time commitment also varies by grade; younger kids need lots of attention, whereas older kids are more self-sufficient. It depends on lot based on your particular kids.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
qup 3y ago
I taught PE for homeschool kids when I was a young man, at a YMCA. It was a small program we ran during some seasons. I'd get 6-15 kids every week for about an hour, and since it was daytime, we could use any facilities we wanted, so we spent a lot of time on the rock wall, at the skate park, and in the pool. The kids were great, and the parents were mostly great, too. Anyway, maybe there's some similar local programs. If not, I bet you could run one yourself. I bet youtube would make it super easy, actually. Even when I taught, sometimes the parents would organize something else for a week, like a local hike.
zen_1 3y ago
I'm glad that I grew up in {shithole} (as Trump would put it) where I was able to threaten to (and follow up on in one case) beating the shit out of my bullies in school. It didn't magically stop the bullying, but it made it much less effective when I could lunge at him/fake him out and make him flinch back in fear of a repeat.

by burcs 3y ago

keiferski 3y ago

I think I have basically the same opinion. It's not so much that I believe homeschooling is amazing in-itself, but rather that the public education system has so clearly deteriorated that it seems borderline criminal to subject your kids to it. The question for me, personally, is private school vs. homeschooling. If you can avoid many of the downsides of public education via choosing the right private school (and being able to afford it), I do wonder if that would be superior to most homeschooling setups.

wizerdrobe 3y ago
We didn’t go full home-school, but my wife and I intentionally left our city to go raise our kids out in a rural area so they could grow up in and around nature and with a nice, small school district that smokes anything we had back in the city. Better test scores, smaller classes, minimal major discipline issues. Prior to moving, our only “good” option for realistic schooling was putting our children in a local Catholic school with high fees. Given our state is in the midst of legal battles with activist groups fighting to overturn a recent school-choice voucher program, seemed moving was the safe choice. For the life of me, I can’t understand why anyone but a public-sector teacher being finally held to account would fight against giving parents options to place their kids in a school they see fit.
- boojums 3y ago
  I like collecting examples that confirm/deny my biases. Would you mind sharing the demographic differences between the two schools?
- nemo44x 3y ago
  > For the life of me, I can’t understand why anyone but a public-sector teacher being finally held to account would fight against giving parents options to place their kids in a school they see fit. Because they want to indoctrinate your kids. A lot of teachers get into the profession because of a compelling social justice urge, much like a missionary from the church. When they are outside the public school system they are harder to reach. Additionally, the more kids in the system equates to more political power for the teachers unions since they get to expand.
- derivagral 3y ago
  After going through something like this[0], it seems similar to what we do in tech. Try the fancy new thing! Don't worry that the creators aren't particularly qualified and mostly want to sell you stuff. Hard to disentangle good change from bad; some of the initiative is good, but negative feedback seems to have been translated to "ignore those haters, they have no valid points." https://features.apmreports.org/sold-a-story/ https://features.apmreports.org/sold-a-story/
standardUser 3y ago
I don't understand this talk about "the public education system". Every school and school district is going to be different. Some are great and others are not. I understand if you live in an area with middling-to-poor schools, but lots of people live near great public schools.
- keiferski 3y ago
  I’m sure there are good public schools, but my experience and the experience of everyone I’ve ever known has not been positive. Combined with policies like California’s [1], I don’t think it’s unreasonable to just be skeptical of most American public education. 1. https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/california-needs-real-math-education https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/california-needs-real-math-edu...
- rcpt 3y ago
  Ridiculous amounts of standardized testing and curriculums designed to optimize for that was the main thing we hated. Seems to be a thing everywhere. When I was a kid teachers had a bit more freedom to decide what to teach but now you teach to the test or lose your funding.
  - jewayne 3y ago
    Teachers absolutely should teach to the test. And individual teachers really shouldn't be in the business of deciding what to teach, either. Why is there an assumption that what is on the test is inherently worthless but every individual teacher is qualified to design an entire curriculum?
    - standardUser 3y ago
      The educators that stood out in my life were the ones who were passionate and interesting and added their own experiences and perspectives. We have somewhere between 40-60 teachers over the course of a typical public education. I'd hope at least a good cross-section of those bring something to the table other than rote explanations of test questions.
    - 3y ago

CodeWriter23 3y ago

Check for homeschooling groups in your area. Meet and talk to parents, you’ll find out all about it including resource centers for when your child needs to learn topics where you are weak. We’ve been homeschooling for 7 years. Our child’s social experience has increased both quantitatively and qualitatively. From few/constantly bullied physically and sexually, to many/nice thoughtful friends who will jump in and defend her instead of filming her, should things go down. She’s also a leader, does service for her community, and (proud papa moment here) at her 4th debate competition (3 per year in this league) won 9th place speaker and 3rd place team. Her team swept the series of 4 rounds. The only way their team could do that…wait for it…lots of practice aka socialization. The “socialization” boogeyman is one of the most overplayed red herrings about homeschooling IMO.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

I think anyone who has been seriously bullied would definitely agree - being bullied as a child can severely fuck up the rest of your life. Sure, many/most eventually move on, but like you, 30 years later I've got the therapy bills to show for it. Sometimes I feel a little guilty feeling envious about my nieces' upbringing. They went to private school that ran from 1-8 grade, so they essentially skipped the middle school experience that was detrimental to so many. Honestly, I believe middle school as I experienced it (a whole bunch of elementary "feeder" schools that fed into one giant middle school for 7-8 grade) is the dumbest invention in the history of humanity. It sticks together kids, at wildly different stages of development, in an unfamiliar environment where everyone is trying to find their place in the social hierarchy - Lord of the Flies should have been set in middle school. Much better IMO to just have kids stay together 1-8th grade, and by then most folks are at least well into puberty by the time they get to high school. Not saying of course bullying doesn't happen in high school, but I think by then more kids are able to find their "tribe", so if they are bullied they have friends to fall back on (again, I'm of course painting with broad strokes).

vacuity 3y ago
I've heard a professor describe high school the same way. We throw a bunch of hormonal, identity-discovering, stressed teenagers together and then wonder why incidents happen.

akira2501 3y ago

> That's not the socialization that I want for my kids. On the other hand, I'd definitely want my children to be familiar with it. Bullying is not something isolated to schools. I've seen it in nearly every social and political situation that exists at nearly every age group. In my estimation people are getting worse at identifying it and collectively we're getting worse at punishing it.

doubled112 3y ago
Dealing with bullies is something you'll definitely see later in life. I'm glad I learned how to shut it down quick or avoid it altogether earlier rather than later. Being let out into the world thinking everybody loves you sounds like a terrifying idea too.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  What do you do to quickly shut down an adult bully?
  - KoftaBob 3y ago
    Sleep with their wife
    - doubled112 3y ago
      Well that escalated quickly. Are you also taking photos for blackmail purposes? That'd very possibly shut the whole thing down.
  - doubled112 3y ago
    It really depends. If it's a peer in a more professional setting, simply calling them out generally makes you less a target, especially if calling out their behaviour is done in a group setting. It comes down to the old "stand up for yourself" rule we've all heard. Also, calm confidence tends to work with adults too. If the bullying is coming from above, time to move on. I have zero patience for it, and there's likely no stopping them. Also, I'm not suggesting you take them outside, although I know a couple guys who've been through fights between coworkers in their workplaces. Grown men (in their 30s) sure can take a long time to grow.

plussed_reader 3y ago

Care to name the region of your 'degrading system' with your anecdote?

arrowsmith 3y ago

> I work remotely, my wife freelances. Are you both working full-time? What's the arrangement? How do you fit the homeschooling in around your jobs? My wife and I have talked about this a lot. We don't have kids yet, but we're very open to the idea of homeschooling when the time comes. I'm not sure how we'll do it though - we're in a better position than most (we make good money and both wfh) but there are only so many hours in the day. I'm interested to know how other people make it work.

gnicholas 3y ago
Kids are in school for 5 or so hours per day, but for many kids (especially those who are bright), they are learning for perhaps 1 hour of that time. If you can take an hour to teach them something, and another 10 minutes to assess their progress later in the day, they will learn at least as much as they would have in school. Of course, the time commitment also varies by grade; younger kids need lots of attention, whereas older kids are more self-sufficient. It depends on lot based on your particular kids.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

qup 3y ago

I taught PE for homeschool kids when I was a young man, at a YMCA. It was a small program we ran during some seasons. I'd get 6-15 kids every week for about an hour, and since it was daytime, we could use any facilities we wanted, so we spent a lot of time on the rock wall, at the skate park, and in the pool. The kids were great, and the parents were mostly great, too. Anyway, maybe there's some similar local programs. If not, I bet you could run one yourself. I bet youtube would make it super easy, actually. Even when I taught, sometimes the parents would organize something else for a week, like a local hike.

zen_1 3y ago

I'm glad that I grew up in {shithole} (as Trump would put it) where I was able to threaten to (and follow up on in one case) beating the shit out of my bullies in school. It didn't magically stop the bullying, but it made it much less effective when I could lunge at him/fake him out and make him flinch back in fear of a repeat.