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My Windows desktop has generated significantly more e-waste per year than the Macs I have owned. Full stop. I've upgraded SSDs from 500gb to 1TB to now 2TB, upg

by 015a 3y ago

My Windows desktop has generated significantly more e-waste per year than the Macs I have owned. Full stop. I've upgraded SSDs from 500gb to 1TB to now 2TB, upgraded graphics cards, and replaced a massive broken aluminum and copper heatsink. All in the last two years. I've had the same MacBook, in a similar timeframe. It gets just as much use. Its still rock-solid. Your concern is a hypothetical one. The inability to upgrade has, in a VERY REAL sense, meant for me: I overbuy specs upfront, so I don't have to upgrade (and thus, generate e-waste). It also experientially means that the machines are more reliable. The least wasteful machine is one that doesn't have to be upgraded; not one that can be and needs to be. The 500gb of storage I have in my MacBook sometimes feels limiting; but the cost of upgrading (a whole new machine) has stopped me from actually going out and doing it; and thus less e-waste is generated. Eventually I will brainstorm what to do with this machine once its outlived its useful life as a laptop. I'm thinking, server rack. We've got Asahi, its got thunderbolt so wiring up super fast storage drives is a cinch.

teaearlgraycold 3y ago
Why are your old parts getting wasted? You can sell or repurpose them.
- 015a 3y ago
  Sure; and you can also sell and repurpose your old Macs. That's independent of the problem everyone seems to yell about concerning Apple and e-waste; the ground reality that I've observed, and I think most people would agree with, is that I see a helluva lot more old iPhones and old Macs in peoples' day-to-day computing rotation than I do old Androids and old Windows PCs. Apple spent half the M3 announcement talking about performance in comparison to Intel Macs, because they know the statistics; there's tons of those things still kicking.
unclejack 3y ago
That's not hypothetical at all. You might want to look into issues people have encountered with the apple SSDs and how much swapping is involved on the lower specced units. Regardless, I choose my non-Apple hardware how you choose your Apple hardware. I buy something which won't have to be upgraded or replaced for a long time. Being able to repair hardware matters. It's fine if it doesn't matter to you and to others.
d3w4s9 3y ago
Sounds like your own problem. Apparently you like to replace and tweak things. Most people buy a good computer and are done with it, and if they ever upgrades something, the frequency is much lower than you. Don't blame your problem on others.
- 015a 3y ago
  But, that's my point? If most people just buy a good computer and are done with it, which I agree to be a correct statement, then why does upgradeability matter from the perspective of global e-waste generation? Outsizing the impact of upgradeability, by literal orders of magnitude, is Reliability and Longevity; buying less in the first place. The problem that I have is: memory modules and SSDs aren't exactly reliable, and need to be replaced. One of those SSD upgrades was a Want; the other was a Need. Hypothetically, Apple should be subject to the same problem; and they are, to some degree, but what we're talking about are degrees. If their machines need to be repaired X% less often, but those repairs do require the replacement of an entire logic board; there's a value of X where they are generating less e-waste per user than modular solutions. Sure, that's a lot of `if`s; but everything I've seen suggests they're on the right side of that equation. Especially considering their repair loop is closed, and they're obviously very proud of their considerable recycling capabilities.

by 015a 3y ago

teaearlgraycold 3y ago

Why are your old parts getting wasted? You can sell or repurpose them.

015a 3y ago
Sure; and you can also sell and repurpose your old Macs. That's independent of the problem everyone seems to yell about concerning Apple and e-waste; the ground reality that I've observed, and I think most people would agree with, is that I see a helluva lot more old iPhones and old Macs in peoples' day-to-day computing rotation than I do old Androids and old Windows PCs. Apple spent half the M3 announcement talking about performance in comparison to Intel Macs, because they know the statistics; there's tons of those things still kicking.

unclejack 3y ago

That's not hypothetical at all. You might want to look into issues people have encountered with the apple SSDs and how much swapping is involved on the lower specced units. Regardless, I choose my non-Apple hardware how you choose your Apple hardware. I buy something which won't have to be upgraded or replaced for a long time. Being able to repair hardware matters. It's fine if it doesn't matter to you and to others.

d3w4s9 3y ago

Sounds like your own problem. Apparently you like to replace and tweak things. Most people buy a good computer and are done with it, and if they ever upgrades something, the frequency is much lower than you. Don't blame your problem on others.

015a 3y ago
But, that's my point? If most people just buy a good computer and are done with it, which I agree to be a correct statement, then why does upgradeability matter from the perspective of global e-waste generation? Outsizing the impact of upgradeability, by literal orders of magnitude, is Reliability and Longevity; buying less in the first place. The problem that I have is: memory modules and SSDs aren't exactly reliable, and need to be replaced. One of those SSD upgrades was a Want; the other was a Need. Hypothetically, Apple should be subject to the same problem; and they are, to some degree, but what we're talking about are degrees. If their machines need to be repaired X% less often, but those repairs do require the replacement of an entire logic board; there's a value of X where they are generating less e-waste per user than modular solutions. Sure, that's a lot of `if`s; but everything I've seen suggests they're on the right side of that equation. Especially considering their repair loop is closed, and they're obviously very proud of their considerable recycling capabilities.