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> Fix Mozilla. Or fork Firefox and create a team with equal resources. What is there to fix? I use Firefox as my daily driver, and I think it's already flawles

by rewmie 3y ago

> Fix Mozilla. Or fork Firefox and create a team with equal resources. What is there to fix? I use Firefox as my daily driver, and I think it's already flawless. To me all major browsers look and feel the same. There are subtle visual queues to remind us of which app we're using, but browsers are pretty much interchangeable nowadays. What exactly do you believe Firefox does wrong that Chrome of even Edge or Safari do right?

edoceo 3y ago
Mozilla the Corporation is having some trouble; seems to have lost focus. The browser is good but the Zeitgeist of HN (and elsewhere on the web) is that their loss of focus is causing their marketshare to decline. Some mis-steps, staff cuts, folk still mad about Pocket. The product is good (my daily driver too) but the thoughts are it could be better if more focus was on the Browser and less on fluffy blog posts and VPN, etc. Chrome, Edge and Safari are doing: a) being the default and b) being the default.
PurpleRamen 3y ago
> What is there to fix? My impression of Mozilla as a company over the last decade is that they are in the business of burning money under the pretext of doing good. And while doing that, they ignore the product which enables them to earn the money. > I use Firefox as my daily driver, and I think it's already flawless. It's not bad, but far less than what it once was and could be. > To me all major browsers look and feel the same. The differences are deeper than just visual gimmicks. But true, on the core-abilities there is not much more than this. And this is a big problem too, it seems people today don't even know what's possible in this space. It's all the same, because to few people know it better. > What exactly do you believe Firefox does wrong that Chrome of even Edge or Safari do right? It's wrong to be the same as the leader. Be different. Brave, Vivaldi, Opera, they are all different, and they sell well enough with being different. Firefox has nothing like that, it's just building on a history they mostly buried.
jeroen 3y ago
> I think it's already flawless. There are more than 18K open bugs in Bugzilla for Firefox. That's far from flawless for everyone.
lproven 3y ago
> I think it's already flawless. It's behind even Edge on features, let alone Vivaldi or something. • No integrated option for vertical tabs • No integrated ad-block (I know there are reasons but still) • They broke the old extensions system, and its replacement is inferior • Bundled development tools 99.9% of users don't want or need • Built in Win98 era profile handling when this is the OS' job • Can't sync toolbar settings or search engines (as per discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38048385 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38048385 ) • Needs custom stylesheets to even hide the immovable built in tab bar • Needs `about:config` tweaks to enable custom stylesheets In re the last 2: FFS this is meant to be the customisable FOSS tool here!
- afjeafaj848 3y ago
  Like 99% of people don't care about any of these Why does HN always assume everyone is a power user
- rewmie 3y ago
  I'm sorry to say but your list sounds like the poster child of desperate nitpicking. Complaining that Firefox provides development tools when all major browsers also ship with those it's simply absurd. So is complaining about lack of an integrated adblock when Firefox was the one who created that feature and allowed any third party to roll their own. Whining about vague complains about profile handling when Firefox made it trivial to run multiple profiles perfectly independently as separate processes, and even to pick and choose which profile to run at app start. And the peak of absurdity is complaining that Firefox is customizable and allows you to do stuff no one in the world cares about. There are plenty of reasons why feature requests are triaged, and your post is a poster child of absurd feature requests.
  - lproven 3y ago
    > Complaining that Firefox provides development tools when all major browsers also ship with those it's simply absurd. No it is not, and here is why. 1. How many developers work on Firefox? Chrome & Chrome or Webkit-based browsers are already some 95% of the market. Citation: https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share It is borderline irresponsible to work on Firefox now. Test on it, yes. Develop on it, no. 2. There is already a developer edition: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/developer/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/developer/ I am just arguing that more functionality needs to be moved to that from the ordinary mass-market edition. > So is complaining about lack of an integrated adblock when Firefox was the one who created that feature and allowed any third party to roll their own. No it isn't. It's a feature of competing products. I am arguing Firefox should be the power users' tool. So replicate the key functions the competition have. > Whining about vague complains about profile handling Dude, if you don't understand it that doesn't mean it's vague. When the Mozilla suite was developed, the main Windows OS was Windows 95, which did not come with a browser. IE was not only an add-on it was a paid-for extra. Now the OS provides profiles and functional separation. Lean on it, make the default edition as small and as fast as possible. Less is more. > And the peak of absurdity is complaining that Firefox is customizable Again, ISTM you don't understand me. I am saying it's still more customisable than Chrome and they should lean in to this. Don't make it necessary to frig `about:config` and add a config file to move a freakin' toolbar. This is not a hard point. > and allows you to do stuff no one in the world cares about. So you don't know how to customise your browser. I do. I care. I did my research. E.g. citing the Classic Addons Archive: « 19,450 Firefox add-ons created by 14,274 developers » https://github.com/JustOff/ca-archive https://github.com/JustOff/ca-archive A lot of people care a lot. 15,000 developers falsifies your ludicrous "no one in the world cares about. Like many others, you are mixing up "I don't care" with "nobody cares", and you are wrong.

by rewmie 3y ago

edoceo 3y ago

Mozilla the Corporation is having some trouble; seems to have lost focus. The browser is good but the Zeitgeist of HN (and elsewhere on the web) is that their loss of focus is causing their marketshare to decline. Some mis-steps, staff cuts, folk still mad about Pocket. The product is good (my daily driver too) but the thoughts are it could be better if more focus was on the Browser and less on fluffy blog posts and VPN, etc. Chrome, Edge and Safari are doing: a) being the default and b) being the default.

PurpleRamen 3y ago

> What is there to fix? My impression of Mozilla as a company over the last decade is that they are in the business of burning money under the pretext of doing good. And while doing that, they ignore the product which enables them to earn the money. > I use Firefox as my daily driver, and I think it's already flawless. It's not bad, but far less than what it once was and could be. > To me all major browsers look and feel the same. The differences are deeper than just visual gimmicks. But true, on the core-abilities there is not much more than this. And this is a big problem too, it seems people today don't even know what's possible in this space. It's all the same, because to few people know it better. > What exactly do you believe Firefox does wrong that Chrome of even Edge or Safari do right? It's wrong to be the same as the leader. Be different. Brave, Vivaldi, Opera, they are all different, and they sell well enough with being different. Firefox has nothing like that, it's just building on a history they mostly buried.

jeroen 3y ago

> I think it's already flawless. There are more than 18K open bugs in Bugzilla for Firefox. That's far from flawless for everyone.

lproven 3y ago

> I think it's already flawless. It's behind even Edge on features, let alone Vivaldi or something. • No integrated option for vertical tabs • No integrated ad-block (I know there are reasons but still) • They broke the old extensions system, and its replacement is inferior • Bundled development tools 99.9% of users don't want or need • Built in Win98 era profile handling when this is the OS' job • Can't sync toolbar settings or search engines (as per discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38048385 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38048385 ) • Needs custom stylesheets to even hide the immovable built in tab bar • Needs `about:config` tweaks to enable custom stylesheets In re the last 2: FFS this is meant to be the customisable FOSS tool here!

afjeafaj848 3y ago
Like 99% of people don't care about any of these Why does HN always assume everyone is a power user
rewmie 3y ago
I'm sorry to say but your list sounds like the poster child of desperate nitpicking. Complaining that Firefox provides development tools when all major browsers also ship with those it's simply absurd. So is complaining about lack of an integrated adblock when Firefox was the one who created that feature and allowed any third party to roll their own. Whining about vague complains about profile handling when Firefox made it trivial to run multiple profiles perfectly independently as separate processes, and even to pick and choose which profile to run at app start. And the peak of absurdity is complaining that Firefox is customizable and allows you to do stuff no one in the world cares about. There are plenty of reasons why feature requests are triaged, and your post is a poster child of absurd feature requests.
- lproven 3y ago
  > Complaining that Firefox provides development tools when all major browsers also ship with those it's simply absurd. No it is not, and here is why. 1. How many developers work on Firefox? Chrome & Chrome or Webkit-based browsers are already some 95% of the market. Citation: https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share It is borderline irresponsible to work on Firefox now. Test on it, yes. Develop on it, no. 2. There is already a developer edition: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/developer/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/developer/ I am just arguing that more functionality needs to be moved to that from the ordinary mass-market edition. > So is complaining about lack of an integrated adblock when Firefox was the one who created that feature and allowed any third party to roll their own. No it isn't. It's a feature of competing products. I am arguing Firefox should be the power users' tool. So replicate the key functions the competition have. > Whining about vague complains about profile handling Dude, if you don't understand it that doesn't mean it's vague. When the Mozilla suite was developed, the main Windows OS was Windows 95, which did not come with a browser. IE was not only an add-on it was a paid-for extra. Now the OS provides profiles and functional separation. Lean on it, make the default edition as small and as fast as possible. Less is more. > And the peak of absurdity is complaining that Firefox is customizable Again, ISTM you don't understand me. I am saying it's still more customisable than Chrome and they should lean in to this. Don't make it necessary to frig `about:config` and add a config file to move a freakin' toolbar. This is not a hard point. > and allows you to do stuff no one in the world cares about. So you don't know how to customise your browser. I do. I care. I did my research. E.g. citing the Classic Addons Archive: « 19,450 Firefox add-ons created by 14,274 developers » https://github.com/JustOff/ca-archive https://github.com/JustOff/ca-archive A lot of people care a lot. 15,000 developers falsifies your ludicrous "no one in the world cares about. Like many others, you are mixing up "I don't care" with "nobody cares", and you are wrong.