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Fix Mozilla. Or fork Firefox and create a team with equal resources. Firefox by itself has lost all selling points which could sway the normal people. And Mozil

Fix Mozilla. Or fork Firefox and create a team with equal resources. Firefox by itself has lost all selling points which could sway the normal people. And Mozilla is unwilling or unable to add new strength. So at this point there probably is not enough benefits one can use to advertise Firefox and let it win against other browsers. But maybe this is also just my impression. Why not start with a website listing reasons and strengths of the different browsers, and research the selling points of browsers and Firefox specifically. Maybe this could be used to figure out which features could be used for advertising, and which features Firefox is missing to compete with others.

moss2 3y ago
This comment reads like an entitled gamer complaining about the next Call of Battlefield IV is "literally 0/10" for not including their favorite RGB-colored skin for a submachine gun.
- numbsafari 3y ago
  Actually, no, the chair of the board is unapologetically fleecing the organization. You aren't donating to firefox the browser, you are donating to Mitchell Baker.
- joenot443 3y ago
  I don’t think it does at all, your comparison is pretty clumsy and inapplicable. To stretch the connection you made, it might be if Activision sought out R&D ventures and educational initiative instead of tending to its golden goose, which in reality it obviously does, as is its responsibility. Firefox is Mozilla’s flagship product, the organization wouldn’t exist in its current form without it. It’s understandable if people are frustrated it doesn’t appear to be getting the org wide funding it proportionally deserves.
- PurpleRamen 3y ago
  Where did I say Firefox is bad? Lacking a selling point which distinguish it from competition does not mean it's generally bad, it's just not good enough to bring in enough new users to balance out the loss of users.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    I've been seeing this sort of laziness all over lately. Some people seem unable to separate analysis/criticism with opinion on overall worth/merit. i.e. if you think there's anything wrong with Organization X, then you must hate them or secretly be a supporter of Organization Y, their arch nemesis. It's annoying at best, dangerous at worst (because that type of thinking can lead to behavior/decisions that are never questioned or challenged).
dangus 3y ago
This impression is dramatized. I'm a technical user, I can't detect a difference between browsing websites on Firefox and Chrome 99% of the time. I imagine the non-technical user notices even less of a difference. I think the decline of Firefox market share has a lot more to do with forces outside of its control than the quality of the product.
- rchaud 3y ago
  The only time I can detect a difference is on complex web apps like Photopea which by their own admission is optimized for Chrome.
- bogwog 3y ago
  I agree, although I suspect most people nowadays interact with Firefox for the first time via the mobile app rather than the desktop. The difference between FF mobile and Chrome is pretty noticeable. Overall usability is worse, if not also performance. If you're using Chrome on mobile, and the differences between the desktop versions are negligible, why would you not just stick to Chrome on desktop as well?
  - ohthatsnotright 3y ago
    I couldn't survive without uBlock on Firefox mobile. The web is just that hostile and awful.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    Chrome v Firefox on mobile (android at least) is pretty noticeable, but in a good way IMHO. Firefox on mobile supporting extensions makes it 10x better out of the gate, but there are also little thought-through things like not having the horrendous "pull down from top to refresh" which 9 out of 10 times I trigger is an accident and not at all what I wanted. I think this is actually a good example of where Firefox could really make a difference on desktop. Introduce a very powerful extension framework, allowing things like what Chrome is removing in manifest v3. Killer extensions will be built and people will switch for that. For the users who would inevitably install malware extensions, there will always be Chrome. Firefox doesn't need 100% market share, just one big enough that it can't be ignored.
prepend 3y ago
I think it’s this. Mozilla seems broken. I love Firefox and its mission, but I have no idea what Mozilla’s mission is. And they seem too beholden to Google to really make a browser good enough to threaten them. I think we need another “true” open source group of devs who just love browsers and love writing browsers who would like to fork and work on. I would support such a group, but I don’t think it exists and don’t know how to effectively encourage it. But I feel like donating money to Mozilla is actually counterproducti
- pseudalopex 3y ago
  A large majority of Mozilla's activity is developing Firefox. What would a browser good enough to threaten Google look like? Has anyone else produced one?
rewmie 3y ago
> Fix Mozilla. Or fork Firefox and create a team with equal resources. What is there to fix? I use Firefox as my daily driver, and I think it's already flawless. To me all major browsers look and feel the same. There are subtle visual queues to remind us of which app we're using, but browsers are pretty much interchangeable nowadays. What exactly do you believe Firefox does wrong that Chrome of even Edge or Safari do right?
- edoceo 3y ago
  Mozilla the Corporation is having some trouble; seems to have lost focus. The browser is good but the Zeitgeist of HN (and elsewhere on the web) is that their loss of focus is causing their marketshare to decline. Some mis-steps, staff cuts, folk still mad about Pocket. The product is good (my daily driver too) but the thoughts are it could be better if more focus was on the Browser and less on fluffy blog posts and VPN, etc. Chrome, Edge and Safari are doing: a) being the default and b) being the default.
- PurpleRamen 3y ago
  > What is there to fix? My impression of Mozilla as a company over the last decade is that they are in the business of burning money under the pretext of doing good. And while doing that, they ignore the product which enables them to earn the money. > I use Firefox as my daily driver, and I think it's already flawless. It's not bad, but far less than what it once was and could be. > To me all major browsers look and feel the same. The differences are deeper than just visual gimmicks. But true, on the core-abilities there is not much more than this. And this is a big problem too, it seems people today don't even know what's possible in this space. It's all the same, because to few people know it better. > What exactly do you believe Firefox does wrong that Chrome of even Edge or Safari do right? It's wrong to be the same as the leader. Be different. Brave, Vivaldi, Opera, they are all different, and they sell well enough with being different. Firefox has nothing like that, it's just building on a history they mostly buried.
- jeroen 3y ago
  > I think it's already flawless. There are more than 18K open bugs in Bugzilla for Firefox. That's far from flawless for everyone.

moss2 3y ago

This comment reads like an entitled gamer complaining about the next Call of Battlefield IV is "literally 0/10" for not including their favorite RGB-colored skin for a submachine gun.

numbsafari 3y ago
Actually, no, the chair of the board is unapologetically fleecing the organization. You aren't donating to firefox the browser, you are donating to Mitchell Baker.
joenot443 3y ago
I don’t think it does at all, your comparison is pretty clumsy and inapplicable. To stretch the connection you made, it might be if Activision sought out R&D ventures and educational initiative instead of tending to its golden goose, which in reality it obviously does, as is its responsibility. Firefox is Mozilla’s flagship product, the organization wouldn’t exist in its current form without it. It’s understandable if people are frustrated it doesn’t appear to be getting the org wide funding it proportionally deserves.
PurpleRamen 3y ago
Where did I say Firefox is bad? Lacking a selling point which distinguish it from competition does not mean it's generally bad, it's just not good enough to bring in enough new users to balance out the loss of users.
- freedomben 3y ago
  I've been seeing this sort of laziness all over lately. Some people seem unable to separate analysis/criticism with opinion on overall worth/merit. i.e. if you think there's anything wrong with Organization X, then you must hate them or secretly be a supporter of Organization Y, their arch nemesis. It's annoying at best, dangerous at worst (because that type of thinking can lead to behavior/decisions that are never questioned or challenged).

dangus 3y ago

This impression is dramatized. I'm a technical user, I can't detect a difference between browsing websites on Firefox and Chrome 99% of the time. I imagine the non-technical user notices even less of a difference. I think the decline of Firefox market share has a lot more to do with forces outside of its control than the quality of the product.

rchaud 3y ago
The only time I can detect a difference is on complex web apps like Photopea which by their own admission is optimized for Chrome.
bogwog 3y ago
I agree, although I suspect most people nowadays interact with Firefox for the first time via the mobile app rather than the desktop. The difference between FF mobile and Chrome is pretty noticeable. Overall usability is worse, if not also performance. If you're using Chrome on mobile, and the differences between the desktop versions are negligible, why would you not just stick to Chrome on desktop as well?
- ohthatsnotright 3y ago
  I couldn't survive without uBlock on Firefox mobile. The web is just that hostile and awful.
- freedomben 3y ago
  Chrome v Firefox on mobile (android at least) is pretty noticeable, but in a good way IMHO. Firefox on mobile supporting extensions makes it 10x better out of the gate, but there are also little thought-through things like not having the horrendous "pull down from top to refresh" which 9 out of 10 times I trigger is an accident and not at all what I wanted. I think this is actually a good example of where Firefox could really make a difference on desktop. Introduce a very powerful extension framework, allowing things like what Chrome is removing in manifest v3. Killer extensions will be built and people will switch for that. For the users who would inevitably install malware extensions, there will always be Chrome. Firefox doesn't need 100% market share, just one big enough that it can't be ignored.

prepend 3y ago

I think it’s this. Mozilla seems broken. I love Firefox and its mission, but I have no idea what Mozilla’s mission is. And they seem too beholden to Google to really make a browser good enough to threaten them. I think we need another “true” open source group of devs who just love browsers and love writing browsers who would like to fork and work on. I would support such a group, but I don’t think it exists and don’t know how to effectively encourage it. But I feel like donating money to Mozilla is actually counterproducti

pseudalopex 3y ago
A large majority of Mozilla's activity is developing Firefox. What would a browser good enough to threaten Google look like? Has anyone else produced one?

rewmie 3y ago

> Fix Mozilla. Or fork Firefox and create a team with equal resources. What is there to fix? I use Firefox as my daily driver, and I think it's already flawless. To me all major browsers look and feel the same. There are subtle visual queues to remind us of which app we're using, but browsers are pretty much interchangeable nowadays. What exactly do you believe Firefox does wrong that Chrome of even Edge or Safari do right?

edoceo 3y ago
Mozilla the Corporation is having some trouble; seems to have lost focus. The browser is good but the Zeitgeist of HN (and elsewhere on the web) is that their loss of focus is causing their marketshare to decline. Some mis-steps, staff cuts, folk still mad about Pocket. The product is good (my daily driver too) but the thoughts are it could be better if more focus was on the Browser and less on fluffy blog posts and VPN, etc. Chrome, Edge and Safari are doing: a) being the default and b) being the default.
PurpleRamen 3y ago
> What is there to fix? My impression of Mozilla as a company over the last decade is that they are in the business of burning money under the pretext of doing good. And while doing that, they ignore the product which enables them to earn the money. > I use Firefox as my daily driver, and I think it's already flawless. It's not bad, but far less than what it once was and could be. > To me all major browsers look and feel the same. The differences are deeper than just visual gimmicks. But true, on the core-abilities there is not much more than this. And this is a big problem too, it seems people today don't even know what's possible in this space. It's all the same, because to few people know it better. > What exactly do you believe Firefox does wrong that Chrome of even Edge or Safari do right? It's wrong to be the same as the leader. Be different. Brave, Vivaldi, Opera, they are all different, and they sell well enough with being different. Firefox has nothing like that, it's just building on a history they mostly buried.
jeroen 3y ago
> I think it's already flawless. There are more than 18K open bugs in Bugzilla for Firefox. That's far from flawless for everyone.