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By this logic, anybody who does any coordination with anybody is scamming. Some nonprofits are scams, and some businesses are scams. Most businesses are not sca

By this logic, anybody who does any coordination with anybody is scamming. Some nonprofits are scams, and some businesses are scams. Most businesses are not scams, and most nonprofits are not scams either.

AndrewKemendo 3y ago
>anybody who does any coordination with anybody is scamming Scam: "a dishonest scheme; a fraud; a swindle" I would argue, outside of our closest relationships, the majority of people are attempting to, or engaging in some kind of scamming behavior in at least half of their interactions. At this point, 2023 worldwide, fear and distrust are table stakes for social interaction
- IggleSniggle 3y ago
  I've been around long enough to know that it's the same as it ever was. I don't think it's a majority, or ever has been a majority, that engage in scamming behavior. I could be wrong about that, but I don't think the ground truth has fundamentally shifted. But that the majority must still behave rightly paranoid that it is the majority in order to protect themselves from a really pretty small minority.
  - AndrewKemendo 3y ago
    >I've been around long enough to know that it's the same as it ever was Yes well the whole point is to make things better - not just keep them the same
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    I'd say "cautious" rather than "paranoid". This relates to a piece of advice I gave my children: most people are fundamentally good and decent. A small percentage are not. The problem is that you can't tell which is which just by looking at them.
  - TylerE 3y ago
    I wouldn’t. The internet has been a game changer for scammers. Back I. The day, you could still run a boiler room, but it was an actual office in the US law enforcement could raid.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- pc86 3y ago
  What a sad life it must be to be constantly fearful and anxious of every social interaction.
  - AndrewKemendo 3y ago
    To be clear, I don't personally operate from this assumption nor does my community (generally) However it is unquestionable that the default mode for humans in America to operate is out of fear - and the opposite is by exception
    - nozzlegear 3y ago
      I'm a human in America and that's certainly not the "unquestionable" default mode that everyone operates on.
    - 0xEFF 3y ago
      Is it really unquestionable?
    - judge2020 3y ago
      Sounds like you're conflating scammy behavior with behavior that furthers one's goals. Just because something someone does furthers their agenda doesn't mean the person they interact with doesn't also get something out of the interaction, and it doesn't mean they were deceived in any way. Even in human interaction amongst your closest friends and family, they only interact with you for their own benefit - that just happens to be in pursuit of the endorphins/dopamine gained when they spend time with the people they share memories with, and it happens to be reciprocal.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  I refuse to make this assumption. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm getting a lot of mileage from assuming kindness and honesty at the start of every interaction. Well, with exception of those which need to be shot with Hanlon's handgun[0]. There's surprisingly many of those, and not where people would suspect (e.g. I see it more often interacting with small businesses than with larger ones) - but in most interactions with others, I find it best to not reach for the handgun until it's clear it's needed. -- [0] - "Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by systemic incentives promoting malice." -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21691282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21691282
  - pc86 3y ago
    > in most interactions with others, I find it best to not reach for the handgun until it's clear it's needed This is excellent advice for both metaphorical and literal handguns.
  - jampekka 3y ago
    Our economic system is based on systemic incentives promoting malice. I'm surprised how people aren't more scammy given how greatly it's incentivized. Large corporations where all human values are made illegal are quite shining examples how humans should operate in our system. This is sadly quite common in non-profits too.
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    > I'm getting a lot of mileage from assuming kindness and honesty at the start of every interaction. I agree with this, but there are situations where because of obvious incentives you cannot make this assumption. Car salesman treating me like his best friend? I wonder why?
- JohnFen 3y ago
  Damn, that's a dark worldview. My personal experience in life indicates it's not even close to true, fortunately.
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  "the majority of people are attempting to, or engaging in some kind of scamming behavior in at least half of their interactions." I think the numbers are way lower, but it is an old, archaic idea, you do good for your tribe/family - by taking from anywhere outside of the tribe. Stealing from the tribe is very bad and might get you killed. Stealing from another tribe however is not stealing, but reputable work, as long as there are no established friendly relations to that tribe. Many people indeed operate with this mindset (consciously or not) But all in all I would rather say, that the number of people who consider all of humanity their family, is increasing.

AndrewKemendo 3y ago

>anybody who does any coordination with anybody is scamming Scam: "a dishonest scheme; a fraud; a swindle" I would argue, outside of our closest relationships, the majority of people are attempting to, or engaging in some kind of scamming behavior in at least half of their interactions. At this point, 2023 worldwide, fear and distrust are table stakes for social interaction

IggleSniggle 3y ago
I've been around long enough to know that it's the same as it ever was. I don't think it's a majority, or ever has been a majority, that engage in scamming behavior. I could be wrong about that, but I don't think the ground truth has fundamentally shifted. But that the majority must still behave rightly paranoid that it is the majority in order to protect themselves from a really pretty small minority.
- AndrewKemendo 3y ago
  >I've been around long enough to know that it's the same as it ever was Yes well the whole point is to make things better - not just keep them the same
- JohnFen 3y ago
  I'd say "cautious" rather than "paranoid". This relates to a piece of advice I gave my children: most people are fundamentally good and decent. A small percentage are not. The problem is that you can't tell which is which just by looking at them.
- TylerE 3y ago
  I wouldn’t. The internet has been a game changer for scammers. Back I. The day, you could still run a boiler room, but it was an actual office in the US law enforcement could raid.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
pc86 3y ago
What a sad life it must be to be constantly fearful and anxious of every social interaction.
- AndrewKemendo 3y ago
  To be clear, I don't personally operate from this assumption nor does my community (generally) However it is unquestionable that the default mode for humans in America to operate is out of fear - and the opposite is by exception
  - nozzlegear 3y ago
    I'm a human in America and that's certainly not the "unquestionable" default mode that everyone operates on.
  - 0xEFF 3y ago
    Is it really unquestionable?
  - judge2020 3y ago
    Sounds like you're conflating scammy behavior with behavior that furthers one's goals. Just because something someone does furthers their agenda doesn't mean the person they interact with doesn't also get something out of the interaction, and it doesn't mean they were deceived in any way. Even in human interaction amongst your closest friends and family, they only interact with you for their own benefit - that just happens to be in pursuit of the endorphins/dopamine gained when they spend time with the people they share memories with, and it happens to be reciprocal.
TeMPOraL 3y ago
I refuse to make this assumption. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm getting a lot of mileage from assuming kindness and honesty at the start of every interaction. Well, with exception of those which need to be shot with Hanlon's handgun[0]. There's surprisingly many of those, and not where people would suspect (e.g. I see it more often interacting with small businesses than with larger ones) - but in most interactions with others, I find it best to not reach for the handgun until it's clear it's needed. -- [0] - "Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by systemic incentives promoting malice." -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21691282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21691282
- pc86 3y ago
  > in most interactions with others, I find it best to not reach for the handgun until it's clear it's needed This is excellent advice for both metaphorical and literal handguns.
- jampekka 3y ago
  Our economic system is based on systemic incentives promoting malice. I'm surprised how people aren't more scammy given how greatly it's incentivized. Large corporations where all human values are made illegal are quite shining examples how humans should operate in our system. This is sadly quite common in non-profits too.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  > I'm getting a lot of mileage from assuming kindness and honesty at the start of every interaction. I agree with this, but there are situations where because of obvious incentives you cannot make this assumption. Car salesman treating me like his best friend? I wonder why?
JohnFen 3y ago
Damn, that's a dark worldview. My personal experience in life indicates it's not even close to true, fortunately.
hutzlibu 3y ago
"the majority of people are attempting to, or engaging in some kind of scamming behavior in at least half of their interactions." I think the numbers are way lower, but it is an old, archaic idea, you do good for your tribe/family - by taking from anywhere outside of the tribe. Stealing from the tribe is very bad and might get you killed. Stealing from another tribe however is not stealing, but reputable work, as long as there are no established friendly relations to that tribe. Many people indeed operate with this mindset (consciously or not) But all in all I would rather say, that the number of people who consider all of humanity their family, is increasing.