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I think that's true, I think free will is more reason (of the general kind that's not only logical but takes into account your mind), than more randomness. Rath

I think that's true, I think free will is more reason (of the general kind that's not only logical but takes into account your mind), than more randomness. Rather, the more your actions are aligned with your own good, brought by understanding yourself and reality, the more free I think you are. (to give an example: is an addicted person free, even if he is in principle doing "what he wants?", or is he trapped by his own desires?) In this sense some people would say I'm a 'compatibilist', because I think there's no great tension between determinism and free will.

geophile 3y ago
Following reason is as deterministic as following your addiction. Sure determinism and free will are compatible as long as you believe that free will is your emotional reaction to discovering what your mind has determined.
prometheus76 3y ago
I don't agree that reason correlates with free will. Many people act irrationally. Behavioral economics was developed because "rational actor" predictions applied to large groups of people turned out to be consistently incorrect. One can willfully be irrational. I do agree with you though, that free will doesn't necessarily mean "doing what I want" (which is a libertarian principle from the French Revolution), but instead, is freedom from desires. That's true freedom, but is rarely found and achieved only after years of ascetic practice.
- lupire 3y ago
  A calculator has free will?
- naasking 3y ago
  > One can willfully be irrational. Don't confuse "having reasons" with "being rational". Free will is a freedom to act according to your internal reasons, with that process of deliberation over your reasons being responsive to various types of feedback. Those reasons don't have to be rational.
kubanczyk 3y ago
One step back please, the "free will" was an ill-conceived start. The core claim is about how random is human will. Throwing in the word "free" adds confusion. The will of an addict is a bit less random, okay. Is there anything quantitative going on here besides "some stuff can increase randomness" and "some other stuff can decrease randomness"?
- gnramires 3y ago
  My claim is that randomness is a dead end. It's irrelevant. But I do think free will can be a useful concept (with little relationship to randomness), although it's too complicated for a short comment I think (a complex quantification of how you can realize good things for yourself and the world). That said, I think this is a nice experiment exactly for surfacing this kind of questioning.

geophile 3y ago

Following reason is as deterministic as following your addiction. Sure determinism and free will are compatible as long as you believe that free will is your emotional reaction to discovering what your mind has determined.

prometheus76 3y ago

I don't agree that reason correlates with free will. Many people act irrationally. Behavioral economics was developed because "rational actor" predictions applied to large groups of people turned out to be consistently incorrect. One can willfully be irrational. I do agree with you though, that free will doesn't necessarily mean "doing what I want" (which is a libertarian principle from the French Revolution), but instead, is freedom from desires. That's true freedom, but is rarely found and achieved only after years of ascetic practice.

lupire 3y ago
A calculator has free will?
naasking 3y ago
> One can willfully be irrational. Don't confuse "having reasons" with "being rational". Free will is a freedom to act according to your internal reasons, with that process of deliberation over your reasons being responsive to various types of feedback. Those reasons don't have to be rational.

kubanczyk 3y ago

One step back please, the "free will" was an ill-conceived start. The core claim is about how random is human will. Throwing in the word "free" adds confusion. The will of an addict is a bit less random, okay. Is there anything quantitative going on here besides "some stuff can increase randomness" and "some other stuff can decrease randomness"?

gnramires 3y ago
My claim is that randomness is a dead end. It's irrelevant. But I do think free will can be a useful concept (with little relationship to randomness), although it's too complicated for a short comment I think (a complex quantification of how you can realize good things for yourself and the world). That said, I think this is a nice experiment exactly for surfacing this kind of questioning.