9 ms·

I see we're going from "UI changes, the cause or reason of which we don't know" to "geopolitics" without considering any of the obvious alternative explanations

I see we're going from "UI changes, the cause or reason of which we don't know" to "geopolitics" without considering any of the obvious alternative explanations. If China decides (and no-one is saying that it has) that it no longer recognizes Israel, then it will simply announce that, and not get a private company to make subtle UI changes to reflect a secret policy instead.

FroshKiller 3y ago
Not that I agree with the tweet's conclusion, but pray share one of the obvious alternative explanations.
- viraptor 3y ago
  Changes in that area, resulting in broken database entries and skipping the country entry/label. People break stuff all the time. Let's see if it stays missing for more than a couple of days...
master_crab 3y ago
Guy in tweet also adds: “Major provocation from China.” If this is a major provocation I’d hate to see what he considers something more substantive than a UI change.
- zmgsabst 3y ago
  Why should Israel respond as if this is less serious than China does when Taiwan is listed on a map? China is extremely offended when that happens — and should be held to the same standard, regarding others.
  - master_crab 3y ago
    China is extremely offended by a lot of things done by a lot of countries. Welcome to the club. What this definitely is not is a major provocation.
    - happytoexplain 3y ago
      >China is extremely offended by a lot of things done by a lot of countries Yes, that's bad. Hence, "should be held to the same standard". You may reasonably disagree with that, but as it stands your implication is that the more bad things a country does, the less we should care.
tazjin 3y ago
Reminds me of the problems with contested borders, which e.g. Yandex runs into because they operate in Western and non-Western jurisdictions. They ended up just removing all national borders from the maps for this reason, which has made the UX worse, especially for international trip planning. Google (used to?) opts for a different approach where some borders are drawn based on where they geolocated you to.
- persnickety 3y ago
  We'll all be better off by shifting to a borderless paradigm. Yandex is just a canary in the coal mine.
  - NikolaNovak 3y ago
    I mean, depends on use case right? Certainly for travel and navigation purposes I very much want to know when I'm about to leave a country :-). For any economical or political review as well, country birders are extremely relevant data. There certainly are geology and other scientific endeavours which perhaps don't care too much for countries, but even they probably need them when they interface with regular humans (I.e. This lake is in such and such country, this volcano is about to explode over there, etc)
    - persnickety 3y ago
      Tourist endeavors really care about borders for 2 aspects: as barriers, and as places where legal or social rules change. If administrative borders had their powers limited to, say, statistical purposes, and not social obstacles, a tourist would stop caring about them. Interfacing with humans does not necessarily have to be done along social borders. I'm sure it wasn't that way before the rise of the nation-state. Everyone knows where the Alps are, or where the Great Lakes are. Pretty much every place on Earth is covered by some geographical-not-political area name. Why shouldn't places be referred to in that way? It's harder to politically push for a change in the definition of the Gobi Desert than of an arbitrary administrative unit.
hluska 3y ago
The obvious alternative explanations?? Like they just randomly and accidentally decided to erase an entire state? Particularly an extremely contested state? Give me a break - you’re really not making a good argument.
- mcphage 3y ago
  What's the... I guess, non-alternative explanation?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- aaomidi 3y ago
  This literally happens constantly in contested regions, even on google maps.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - hluska 3y ago
    Can you show me an example of a UN country being erased from a map during a major event in which others are calling for them to be wiped off the globe?
Waterluvian 3y ago
China publishes an official political map each year, which the companies must treat as canon. They also swapped a contested half-Russian island to being fully China. I think it’s a way to assert some politics at a lower volume. I can’t say for sure this is that, but I can say for sure that there is tremendous political power in cartography and the simplest act of choosing the label levels for placenames. This move has been done countless times before so I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it’s intentional.
bigger_inside 3y ago
it also has little incentive to do so, as it's positioning itself as a possible mediator, one that also does a lot of business with Israel. And remember, the thing that led to the short animosity between China and the Soviet Union (well, one of the things) was that the SU was a country with a mission to spread its system, while China wasn't, and isn't. China seeks to do business with everyone without telling them how to run their affairs, quite unlike the US. The more likely explanation is that the companies are catering to their custmer base. As in most of the world, there is huge public support to stop the killing of Gazans. Western companies, and companies in Wester-capured neocolonies, can't show support for Gaza. Maybe this is ALibaba testing out if it can. It'll be interesting to see if it lasts, or if it gets changed again in a few days. This should tell you more.
- infamia 3y ago
  > China seeks to do business with everyone without telling them how to run their affairs, quite unlike the US. Tell that to the Austrailians and now the Israelis, where China has sent a naval task force. China is building aircraft carriers like nobody's businesss for force remote projection, which is the one thing they're really good at. China has the same desire to project force as the US, they simply lack the means to do so as effectively. Their recent actions in the Gulf is proof enough of that.
kkzz99 3y ago
The truth is that this was always the case, no change happened. All that happened was that a known anti-china fake news "reporter" associated with the falun gong cult was spreading lies on twitter. See for example here: https://twitter.com/CurtExplores/status/1719334699599122690 https://twitter.com/CurtExplores/status/1719334699599122690
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

FroshKiller 3y ago

Not that I agree with the tweet's conclusion, but pray share one of the obvious alternative explanations.

viraptor 3y ago
Changes in that area, resulting in broken database entries and skipping the country entry/label. People break stuff all the time. Let's see if it stays missing for more than a couple of days...

master_crab 3y ago

Guy in tweet also adds: “Major provocation from China.” If this is a major provocation I’d hate to see what he considers something more substantive than a UI change.

zmgsabst 3y ago
Why should Israel respond as if this is less serious than China does when Taiwan is listed on a map? China is extremely offended when that happens — and should be held to the same standard, regarding others.
- master_crab 3y ago
  China is extremely offended by a lot of things done by a lot of countries. Welcome to the club. What this definitely is not is a major provocation.
  - happytoexplain 3y ago
    >China is extremely offended by a lot of things done by a lot of countries Yes, that's bad. Hence, "should be held to the same standard". You may reasonably disagree with that, but as it stands your implication is that the more bad things a country does, the less we should care.

tazjin 3y ago

Reminds me of the problems with contested borders, which e.g. Yandex runs into because they operate in Western and non-Western jurisdictions. They ended up just removing all national borders from the maps for this reason, which has made the UX worse, especially for international trip planning. Google (used to?) opts for a different approach where some borders are drawn based on where they geolocated you to.

persnickety 3y ago
We'll all be better off by shifting to a borderless paradigm. Yandex is just a canary in the coal mine.
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  I mean, depends on use case right? Certainly for travel and navigation purposes I very much want to know when I'm about to leave a country :-). For any economical or political review as well, country birders are extremely relevant data. There certainly are geology and other scientific endeavours which perhaps don't care too much for countries, but even they probably need them when they interface with regular humans (I.e. This lake is in such and such country, this volcano is about to explode over there, etc)
  - persnickety 3y ago
    Tourist endeavors really care about borders for 2 aspects: as barriers, and as places where legal or social rules change. If administrative borders had their powers limited to, say, statistical purposes, and not social obstacles, a tourist would stop caring about them. Interfacing with humans does not necessarily have to be done along social borders. I'm sure it wasn't that way before the rise of the nation-state. Everyone knows where the Alps are, or where the Great Lakes are. Pretty much every place on Earth is covered by some geographical-not-political area name. Why shouldn't places be referred to in that way? It's harder to politically push for a change in the definition of the Gobi Desert than of an arbitrary administrative unit.

hluska 3y ago

The obvious alternative explanations?? Like they just randomly and accidentally decided to erase an entire state? Particularly an extremely contested state? Give me a break - you’re really not making a good argument.

mcphage 3y ago
What's the... I guess, non-alternative explanation?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
aaomidi 3y ago
This literally happens constantly in contested regions, even on google maps.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- hluska 3y ago
  Can you show me an example of a UN country being erased from a map during a major event in which others are calling for them to be wiped off the globe?

Waterluvian 3y ago

China publishes an official political map each year, which the companies must treat as canon. They also swapped a contested half-Russian island to being fully China. I think it’s a way to assert some politics at a lower volume. I can’t say for sure this is that, but I can say for sure that there is tremendous political power in cartography and the simplest act of choosing the label levels for placenames. This move has been done countless times before so I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it’s intentional.

bigger_inside 3y ago

it also has little incentive to do so, as it's positioning itself as a possible mediator, one that also does a lot of business with Israel. And remember, the thing that led to the short animosity between China and the Soviet Union (well, one of the things) was that the SU was a country with a mission to spread its system, while China wasn't, and isn't. China seeks to do business with everyone without telling them how to run their affairs, quite unlike the US. The more likely explanation is that the companies are catering to their custmer base. As in most of the world, there is huge public support to stop the killing of Gazans. Western companies, and companies in Wester-capured neocolonies, can't show support for Gaza. Maybe this is ALibaba testing out if it can. It'll be interesting to see if it lasts, or if it gets changed again in a few days. This should tell you more.

infamia 3y ago
> China seeks to do business with everyone without telling them how to run their affairs, quite unlike the US. Tell that to the Austrailians and now the Israelis, where China has sent a naval task force. China is building aircraft carriers like nobody's businesss for force remote projection, which is the one thing they're really good at. China has the same desire to project force as the US, they simply lack the means to do so as effectively. Their recent actions in the Gulf is proof enough of that.

kkzz99 3y ago

The truth is that this was always the case, no change happened. All that happened was that a known anti-china fake news "reporter" associated with the falun gong cult was spreading lies on twitter. See for example here: https://twitter.com/CurtExplores/status/1719334699599122690 https://twitter.com/CurtExplores/status/1719334699599122690

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]