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Genetic heritage of the Denisovans may have left its mark on our mental health
- taneq 3y agoThat’s a pretty strong statement in the headline, given how fluffy the article is. “X caused Y” rapidly softens into “Z might cause Y, and Z is possibly from X.”
- mkmk 3y agoOk genetics are fascinating, but 23&me is a privacy nightmare. What’s the state of the art on safely exploring my DNA?
- wizzwizz4 3y agoBuying your own centrifuge, I'd assume. Though apparently it's easier than I thought: https://hackaday.io/project/160183-diy-dna-sequencer/details https://hackaday.io/project/160183-diy-dna-sequencer/details
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- itishappy 3y agoPrivate whole genome sequencing is <$1k these days. https://www.illumina.com/techniques/sequencing/dna-sequencing/whole-genome-sequencing/human.html https://www.illumina.com/techniques/sequencing/dna-sequencin... https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/ https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/
- Boogie_Man 3y agoCan anyone vouch for the validity of nebula's privacy respecting testing? I've told people around me that I'd get it done as soon as I could trust they wouldn't sell me data. AFAIK I'm just German and Irish, but I've been mistaken as Turkish, Hispanic, and Chinese at different points in my life (by members of these ethnicities). I also have heterochromia, and worry that it might be related to inbreeding.
- graphe 3y agoNo but I can attest to my friend using Dante labs. Nebula and Dante as well as all others outsource the lab tests and buy"bulk vouchers". The privacy isn't an issue, Dante has been known to hire really bad labs that lose or mislabel data and latness is a problem. If you choose one for privacy, they'd be the best since they are the worst.
- patall 3y agoMislabeled data does not help you with a data set that can be fully attributed to you using >>1% of the entire data set.
- graphe 3y agoThe data isn't stored by the labs (not Dante, the testing lab) and, and these mishaps happening is further evidence it isn't. You don't need to have Dante keep your data after transfer and the information gleaned isn't that powerful or useful. Full genomes of people, a DNA dox is available from many people and you can download all several gigs of their data. Good luck doing something with it, it's like LLMs but more random, larger files, and hard to find definite information even from GWAS.
- patall 3y agoTurns out I am a lucky guy (that has found quite a lot in anonymous genome data set). I am a bioinformatician and have worked with population sequencing data set like gnomAD. There is a huge inherent value in genomes without metadata and we (the research group I am working in) are using them every day. There is a large world beyond GWAS.
- graphe 3y agoDo you think that people should be concerned with their privacy?
- Vrondi 3y ago...and they will not keep my data in any sort of database to be hacked some day?
- UweSchmidt 3y agoIt takes exceptionally determined individuals and considerable effort to build and setup software and systems that deviate from mainstream "best-practices", for example to keep your data actually safe (in every sense of the word) long-term. These companies probably have their hands full solving their domain problems and running a business. Security is not mentioned as a main selling point on their respective websites. Without a higher public awareness of data security, severe punishment for any breaches and failures to keep data safe, and a software ecosystem that prioritizes security much higher I feel you are right expecting the worst.
- Podgajski 3y agoIf you’re as sick as I was these concerns of privacy become minuscule because I probably would’ve been dead right now if I did not get my genetics 15 years ago. I got my genetics from 23 and me and I’m well aware that they are using my genetic code for drug research. As far as someone getting my DNA you can pretty much get it for me anytime you want by following me around and taking a swab from a cup or whatever. At least they genetics at 23 and me are anonymized. And I would think people can figure more out about you if they have your Gmail address then your genetics.
- _Algernon_ 3y agoAny EU based companies? As a EEA citizen any US based company is off the table for me. Also, any companies that just send you the raw genetic data and maybe a summary report and doesn't want to provide you with a life-time "service"? That doesn't force a data breach liability on you and your family for the rest of your life? That would be great.
- manmal 3y agoZinc ionophores are thought to be very important for zinc availability within cells: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S016201342100338X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01620... I’ve seen green tea extract (EGCG) mentioned as a promising ionophore, but there are probably way more.
- stephenitis 3y agoThis is the first time I'm hearing that inonophore term. I get the concept of hydrophilic membranes in the cell. Feels crazy to target these gates with supplements without more concrete science or theory. I do take Green Tea extract but it adds to my daily caffeine load (30-40mg) with my morning coffee. ----- I supplement using Micro Zinc from Nootropics Depot. " MicroZinc is a zinc supplement encased in large hollow spheres known as phospholipid micelles. ... The sucrester protects the sucrosome from breaking down and aids in the absorption and bioavailability of zinc " I might've been bought into marketing here but the more I learn about the importance of our minerals, most of which I think I get from my food, the more I try to invest into higher quality mineral supplement sources. I don't take more than 20-40mg a day. This did not help me from getting my butt kicked by my first common cold in 3 years recently. I did an all nighter which led to me being sick. Sleep is so damn important in maintaining the immune system, I'd bet it figures into the immune systems of our ancestors in distinct ways.
- manmal 3y agoMicroZinc is one of the few sucrosomial zinc supplements, IMO a really good choice.
- Podgajski 3y agoOmega 3 (EPA/DHa) is way way more crucial to zinc transport, specifically with the transporter they’re talking about in the article. This would make sense since most of these people were probably eating a very high seafood diet like my ancestors did (Sami). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4145306/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4145306/
- davidw 3y agoI am picturing Larry David discussing Denisovans and their relationship with his neurosis...
- commandlinefan 3y agoI can't find the article now (it was on SlateStarCodex), but Scott Alexander wrote a great article where he broke down all of the genes that have a tendency to break either toward a genetic advantage (like high intelligence) or a genetic disadvantage (like cerbral palsy) and how it's always a dice-roll of the genetic expression whether it ends up helping or harming you.
- AndrewKemendo 3y ago>Zinc regulation: key to adapting to the cold This is a really important finding. I think it's not obvious to most modern humans that the majority of Human life has been spent in relatively cold temperatures [1] [1]https://www.nature.com/articles/nature19798 https://www.nature.com/articles/nature19798
- vanderZwan 3y agoWait, even for the humans living near the equator? Also, you just made me realize I never have actually given any thought to how much the last ice age affected climates beyond Europe.
- AndrewKemendo 3y agoAwesome! My day is a success then
- Podgajski 3y agoThis really only applies to northern Europeans. We are the only cold adapted peoples because of the ice age. But it’s a really really huge finding for more natural cures to both mood disorders and immune disorders. If zinc deficiency was tested more regularly in the population, with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, we would probably find a lot of people would be helped by taking zinc and possibly some other supplements.
- HPsquared 3y agoAren't quite a few people going to be cold-adapted? Inuits and native Siberians, probably many others.
- Podgajski 3y agoYes, we all came in the same people. But there will be many people who inhabit Europe now who came from southern Europe and the caucuses. These people came from a later migration from Africa then the cold adapted people who came earlier. There were two migrations out of Africa, and this will determine if a person has called adapted or not.
- Podgajski 3y agoI posted this because I have both an immune deficiency and a serious mood disorder and I carry the polymorphisms they talk about in this article. I was blown away when I found this because I knew it was true that zinc cured both of my issues for the most part. I finally got my doctors to give me a zinc test and I was deficient even though I was eating oysters, nearly daily and taking zinc supplements. So I have this transport problem with zinc and slc30a9, but also I have several genes that seem to need zinc more than other people. (PNP for one) I’ve compared my genetics with a group of 12 other peoples genetics who are friends of mine so I know how much of an oddball I am. I am bragging here, because I found this out by myself. My haplotype is a very ancient haplotype, which originates around 50,000 years ago, and this links me with the Denisovans as well.
- cgh 3y agoDid you increase your zinc supplementation further? It sounds like you have had some success with self-treatment so I’m curious what you did.
- Podgajski 3y agoI found it was not only the zinc, but omega-3 from seafood was even more crucial. Also, lowering my omega 6. Omega 3 three increases the transport of zinc through these zinc transporters. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4145306/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4145306/ When I was first found deficient , I took 200 mg of zinc sulfate which has 50 mg of elemental zinc for quite a few weeks, and there was no change. It wasn’t until I changed my fatty acid intake that my levels got up to .81. Also, I found that Zand zinc lozenges, which contain, zinc, methionine, will raise my zinc faster than a lot of tablet supplements. It may be that I get more absorption in my mouth, then in my gut. But before doing this, you should get both your zinc and copper tested. Zinc will inhibit copper absorption and can end up in a deficiency after a while. I still eat a lot of muscles since they’re very well balanced in zinc and copper.
- datameta 3y agoCan second this, raising my omega-3 ratio is one of the most effective dietary changes that helped my inflammation.
- momirlan 3y agosure, blame it on the poor Denisovans....
- Podgajski 3y agoThis is more true than you know! The problem is not of our genetics. The problem is the mismatch of our genetics with our environment and diet.
- corndoge 3y agoTitle edited to remove the word "may"? why
- mannyv 3y agoThere was an observation about natural selection I heard a few months ago which is pretty obvious once you see it it: adaptations only matter during the period that you're fertile. Mutations that increased long-term mental illness didn't matter if nobody lived past 30. Mutations that increased attractiveness but caused issues down the road would be selected for by definition. In this case people with this gene would be actually available as mates, as opposed to the others who presumably tended to freeze to death.
- Podgajski 3y agoHave a lot of misunderstandings here. The people they talk about didn’t have mental illnesses in the past, we have them in the present, because our genes do not match our environment. These called adaptive traits were beneficial in a cold environment, not so beneficial in a warmer environment. And then you have all the dietary changes, etc.
- saalweachter 3y agoAlso, the average lifespan being short was not the same as nobody living past 30. Childhood mortality was INSANE even into the 19th century, but if you made it to 20 you still had pretty good odds of making into your 50s, 60s, or even 70s.
- chownie 3y ago> The people they talk about didn’t have mental illnesses in the past What do you mean by this? There was less on average, or that mental illness didn't exist at all?
- shepherdjerred 3y agoThis isn't entirely true. Adaptations are better if they help some offspring survive and reproduce during some window of time. For example, if I drop dead at 30 there's less of a chance that I can help protect/guide my offspring. If I live past 30 their chances of survival (and reproduction) increase.
- opportune 3y ago