3 ms·

in the hundreds of hours I've played of multiplayer console FPSs, which are what these controllers are marketed towards[1], I think I saw a player with a modded

in the hundreds of hours I've played of multiplayer console FPSs, which are what these controllers are marketed towards[1], I think I saw a player with a modded controller once. yes they got an advantage from it, but FPSs are mostly about how fast you can aim not how fast you can shoot, so it wasn't exactly game-breaking also in Call of Duty at least, often semi-auto fire rates are capped at a human level anyway even further, as far as I can see, you can't buy one of these controllers cheaply direct from china as you might expect to. from searching aliexpress and temu, I can only see a chipset for sale. it looks like your only option is to build one yourself or buy one custom built from a specialist site, but neither option is cheap and easy IANAL so I could be wrong about this, but I'm reasonably sure third party controller vendors operate in a somewhat legally grey area and could be exposing themselves to a nasty lawsuit if Microsoft or Sony took exception to them, which mitigates the problem basically it's barely a problem and this kind of action from microsoft is classic "product in decline" behaviour [1] - https://megamodz.com/instructions/ps4/mods https://megamodz.com/instructions/ps4/mods

mountainb 3y ago
So, it is possible that the manufacturers are infringing in some way, shape, or form, but collecting a judgment on it or enforcing an injunction against a Chinese manufacturer or marketplace is not going to go anywhere. With software cheats, the lawsuits are usually over some kind of DMCA copyright protection circumvention, tortious interference, and the various generic unfair competition claims. For controller stuff and in certain software claims there might also be some patent issues there to raise in addition to those. Generally, the guys operating out of China etc. are not going to care that much because only their US-based accounts are going to be at the mercy of US courts. It is not even that straightforward to enforce US judgements in EU countries for various reasons (e.g. in Germany, to enforce the judgment, Germany must have close analogue of the underlying claim under its own law, and the German courts do not construe this liberally). I disagree that this is not a big problem. The cheat situation in online gaming probably worse now than it has ever been because the cheat providers have really succeeded in making them easy to use and access for the average user. IMO the companies brought it on themselves to some extent by breaking up the old decentralized server model, which was harder to use, but also was able to take advantage of massive numbers of volunteer moderators to regulate cheating and other bad behavior.
- permo-w 3y ago
  >I disagree that this is not a big problem. The cheat situation in online gaming probably worse now than it has ever been in PC gaming, sure. for software cheats, sure. but I'm not talking about either of those things. I'm talking about modded console controllers, which is the focus of this thread also, it's not really true that these sellers are outside of the range of copyright laws. while the specific sellers may well be, aliexpress, temu, wish, etc as platforms are all very much exposed to Western courts
busterarm 3y ago
macro controllers and AI controller inputs are a thing and are actually rampant in certain games. Just look on youtube for some of the Street Fighter 6 cheat videos that have popped up in the last few weeks. Also if you play games like Apex, Valorant, etc, there are macro controllers that will not only perform movement tricks for you but will do things like correct aim for automatic fire drift/spread or even (on PC) home in on targets for perfect aim for you. Cheat capability is cheap to buy these days and it's way more prevalent than you can imagine. It has basically killed off Escape from Tarkov already.
- Loughla 3y ago
  I just don't get it. I genuinely don't get it. If you're cheating, you're not winning; the software or hardware is. What is the point? What do people get from this?
  - permo-w 3y ago
    in some games there's a certain degree of "everyone else is doing it, so I have to in order to compete", which I can somewhat understand, but obviously the game has to get to that point in the first place, and a lot of that is probably just children
  - AlexandrB 3y ago
    Same applies to "pay to win" games, yet they make a ton of money. Cheating is definitely its own kind of fun though - I remember cheating in single player games using something like a Game Genie back in the day. It's fun because you feel like you're "getting one over" on the game. In multiplayer it's a plague, but some people (mostly kids/teens, I hope) seem to be very amused by the angry reactions they get.
  - busterarm 3y ago
    Some people will be bullies their whole lives. Also writing cheat software is a lot of fun. Great engineering problems.
  - genewitch 3y ago

mountainb 3y ago

So, it is possible that the manufacturers are infringing in some way, shape, or form, but collecting a judgment on it or enforcing an injunction against a Chinese manufacturer or marketplace is not going to go anywhere. With software cheats, the lawsuits are usually over some kind of DMCA copyright protection circumvention, tortious interference, and the various generic unfair competition claims. For controller stuff and in certain software claims there might also be some patent issues there to raise in addition to those. Generally, the guys operating out of China etc. are not going to care that much because only their US-based accounts are going to be at the mercy of US courts. It is not even that straightforward to enforce US judgements in EU countries for various reasons (e.g. in Germany, to enforce the judgment, Germany must have close analogue of the underlying claim under its own law, and the German courts do not construe this liberally). I disagree that this is not a big problem. The cheat situation in online gaming probably worse now than it has ever been because the cheat providers have really succeeded in making them easy to use and access for the average user. IMO the companies brought it on themselves to some extent by breaking up the old decentralized server model, which was harder to use, but also was able to take advantage of massive numbers of volunteer moderators to regulate cheating and other bad behavior.

permo-w 3y ago
>I disagree that this is not a big problem. The cheat situation in online gaming probably worse now than it has ever been in PC gaming, sure. for software cheats, sure. but I'm not talking about either of those things. I'm talking about modded console controllers, which is the focus of this thread also, it's not really true that these sellers are outside of the range of copyright laws. while the specific sellers may well be, aliexpress, temu, wish, etc as platforms are all very much exposed to Western courts

busterarm 3y ago

macro controllers and AI controller inputs are a thing and are actually rampant in certain games. Just look on youtube for some of the Street Fighter 6 cheat videos that have popped up in the last few weeks. Also if you play games like Apex, Valorant, etc, there are macro controllers that will not only perform movement tricks for you but will do things like correct aim for automatic fire drift/spread or even (on PC) home in on targets for perfect aim for you. Cheat capability is cheap to buy these days and it's way more prevalent than you can imagine. It has basically killed off Escape from Tarkov already.

Loughla 3y ago
I just don't get it. I genuinely don't get it. If you're cheating, you're not winning; the software or hardware is. What is the point? What do people get from this?
- permo-w 3y ago
  in some games there's a certain degree of "everyone else is doing it, so I have to in order to compete", which I can somewhat understand, but obviously the game has to get to that point in the first place, and a lot of that is probably just children
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  Same applies to "pay to win" games, yet they make a ton of money. Cheating is definitely its own kind of fun though - I remember cheating in single player games using something like a Game Genie back in the day. It's fun because you feel like you're "getting one over" on the game. In multiplayer it's a plague, but some people (mostly kids/teens, I hope) seem to be very amused by the angry reactions they get.
- busterarm 3y ago
  Some people will be bullies their whole lives. Also writing cheat software is a lot of fun. Great engineering problems.
- genewitch 3y ago