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> No, instead you get to deal with absurdly slow dependency solving / installation …have you installed anything with Python recently? It’s not exactly speedy i

> No, instead you get to deal with absurdly slow dependency solving / installation …have you installed anything with Python recently? It’s not exactly speedy itself. Oh and who knows whether said application will do the right thing and use a venv or just spew its packages into the global path. At least node has the dignity to put all its project-scoped dependencies into a single place, separate from everything else. > Obviously, because systems aren't issuing tooling in Node. Given I can’t remember the last time I used an application that relied on the system providing the runtime (let alone the correct version) instead of shipping their required version, I’m not sure this is really much of a point. > This is literally untrue – I know for a fact that both npm and yarn are extremely popular, and as mentioned, the newcomer bun exists. And all of them are more streamlined than your average Python packaging experience, I promise. I could probably get my parents to NPM install a working with greater success and ease than trying to get them to do the same with whatever is the latest Python packaging mechanism de jour.

sgarland 3y ago
I have to ask, to clarify some points: are you referring to a library for use in a project, or a standalone tool? > have you installed anything with Python recently? It’s not exactly speedy itself Yes? I’ve never thought, “man this is slow,” which is very unlike my few experiences with npm. IIRC yarn was quite a bit faster, but I haven’t used either in some time. If you have a list of packages as a benchmark, I’m happy to try to come up with an equivalently-sized Python list and compare the two. > Given I can’t remember the last time I used an application that relied on the system providing the runtime (let alone the correct version) instead of shipping their required version, I’m not sure this is really much of a point. I think you’re missing the point – systems often ship with tooling written in Python because it’s a reasonable language, with a relatively stable ecosystem. Python versions don’t EOL for at least 5 years. Node is about half that.

sgarland 3y ago

I have to ask, to clarify some points: are you referring to a library for use in a project, or a standalone tool? > have you installed anything with Python recently? It’s not exactly speedy itself Yes? I’ve never thought, “man this is slow,” which is very unlike my few experiences with npm. IIRC yarn was quite a bit faster, but I haven’t used either in some time. If you have a list of packages as a benchmark, I’m happy to try to come up with an equivalently-sized Python list and compare the two. > Given I can’t remember the last time I used an application that relied on the system providing the runtime (let alone the correct version) instead of shipping their required version, I’m not sure this is really much of a point. I think you’re missing the point – systems often ship with tooling written in Python because it’s a reasonable language, with a relatively stable ecosystem. Python versions don’t EOL for at least 5 years. Node is about half that.