8 ms·

Medical insurance - oh you have cancer/hear attack/etc gene. You premiums skyrocket. Job opportunities - oh so sorry you have bipolar gene... Dictator governm

Medical insurance - oh you have cancer/hear attack/etc gene. You premiums skyrocket. Job opportunities - oh so sorry you have bipolar gene... Dictator governments - oh your genes are shit so you are not allowed to have kids.

seydor 3y ago
sue the first two, get $$$. This is textbook discrimination i avoid dictator governments , which do it anyway already, just based on phenotype
- squigz 3y ago
  Don't wanna live in a dictatorship? Just avoid it, simple!
- lopis 3y ago
  > sue the first two, get $$$. This is textbook discrimination Ah but they did no wrong! They just licensed the AI du jur that functions pretty much like a black box, but just so happens to feed on multiple sources of data from dozens of data brokers. One of those brokers aggregates data from other brokers, including DNA data from DNA services. Meanwhile, all the recruiter saw was "37% match" before reading your resume and moved on.
- ekianjo 3y ago
  > i avoid dictator governments If you are born in one you cannot really escape thats kind of a big design feature you know
blunder_chess 3y ago
In the United States, my understanding is that your medical & employment discrimination scenarios are already illegal due to the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act of 2008. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_Information_Nondiscrimination_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_Information_Nondiscrim...
- lrvick 3y ago
  Because large corporations have never broken laws before? Or bribed politicians to change them?
  - eliasmacpherson 3y ago
    stealing is illegal, so I never lock my front door.
    - HumblyTossed 3y ago
      Keeps you from getting a broken window, so that’s probably not a bad idea. If they want in, a locked door isn’t stopping them.
      - hef19898 3y ago
        The locked door makes all the difference for your insurance claim so.
      - genewitch 3y ago
        In Louisiana, if you leave your car unlocked and someone takes it, it isn't GTA, its unauthorized use of a movable.
  - macNchz 3y ago
    > Or bribed politicians to change them? There was already an effort to weaken this law in 2017. It didn’t pass, but if corporations are lobbying for loopholes it would be entirely unsurprising to see some slip into future legislation. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/13/14907250/hr1313-bill-genetic-information https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/13/14907250/h...
  - Chris2048 3y ago
    Any law could be subverted via these justifications. "Why should I register my gun when the government itself breaks laws, and its politicians corrupted by bribes!"
leoedin 3y ago
I don't think the first two are necessary a big deal in a western liberal democracy. We already have fairly strict legislation around data protection and selective hiring based on certain characteristics (like ethnicity - which is really just a much less accurate form of genetic classification). There might be a period where we haven't legislated against that sort of stuff. But once we do there's going to be a pretty big paper trail if a potential employer or insurance provider is searching a genetic database for you. Dictators? Yes, they could do that. But they could already send you to the gulag because of how you look, who you're friends with, what you said in the pub etc. It's another tool in their arsenal maybe, but it's not like they don't have a lot anyway.
concordDance 3y ago
> Medical insurance - oh you have cancer/hear attack/etc gene. You premiums skyrocket. This is how insurance is supposed to work. It should reflect your actual risk levels. Now, if what you actually want is socialised healthcare then implement that, trying to backdoor it via insurance gives you the worst of both worlds. > Job opportunities - oh so sorry you have bipolar gene... Then the company that looks at actual behavior rather than genes hires people slightly under market and makes bank. Then other companies start copying them.
- ekianjo 3y ago
  > This is how insurance is supposed to work. It should reflect your actual risk levels. Of course not. This is how perverse insurance works. Proper insurance systems work by pooling risks into large groups so that the few who are unlucky to have problems at a given point in time are covered. The whole custom risk factor at the individual level is pure exploitation and a travesty of what insurance systems used to stand for.
  - _heimdall 3y ago
    I'm not sure that I follow. Whats wrong with insurance companies factoring in DNA markers to put people at risk of cancer or heart attack in a higher risk pool? That's not a custom risk factor at the individual level. Its just using data they believe indicates risk to decide what larger pool the person gets put into.
    - polygamous_bat 3y ago
      You don’t even need DNA data do to that, just use race statistics to increase or decrease your premium! Or do you think that would be illegal?
      - concordDance 3y ago
        Companies use many forms of data to change premiums, many you don't have much control over (e.g. what area of the country you live in). Why is that wrong?
lotsofpulp 3y ago
In the US, it has been 13 years since the PPACA restricted premium pricing to only a handful of factors: https://www.healthcare.gov/how-plans-set-your-premiums https://www.healthcare.gov/how-plans-set-your-premiums >Under the health care law, insurance companies can account for only 5 things when setting premiums. >Age: Premiums can be up to 3 times higher for older people than for younger ones. >Location: Where you live has a big effect on your premiums. Differences in competition, state and local rules, and cost of living account for this. >Tobacco use: Insurers can charge tobacco users up to 50% more than those who don’t use tobacco. >Individual vs. family enrollment: Insurers can charge more for a plan that also covers a spouse and/or dependents. >Plan category: There are five plan categories – Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, and Catastrophic. The categories are based on how you and the plan share costs. Bronze plans usually have lower monthly premiums and higher out-of-pocket costs when you get care. Platinum plans usually have the highest premiums and lowest out-of-pocket costs.
- bugglebeetle 3y ago
  The age one is completely insane considering the amount of unchecked age discrimination that American employers engage in. We decided to fire Bob because he’s 51 and it’s cheaper to employ a 27 year old. Oh Bob, sorry, BTW your market place plan is now also $1500 a month.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Bob, however, did not have to pay for older people’s healthcare during the 1990s and 2000s. Also, as an fyi, New York and Vermont do not allow age as a factor in pricing, and Massachusetts restricts the age rating factor to 2 instead of 3.
    - bugglebeetle 3y ago
      Everyone pays for everyone else’s healthcare, whether it be insurance pools, Medicaid, CHIPS, Medicare, etc. In America, we just do it in an especially dumb, cruel, and expensive way because it makes some assholes a lot of money.
InitialLastName 3y ago
(Potentially in some US states): Your biological material was found in the bio-waste can of a facility that was performing illegal gynecological operations. You're under arrest for the murder of a fetus.
Symmetry 3y ago
In general, a person's performance in their job is the best evidence for their future performance, followed by tests you can give them, followed by their genes. That's not to say that there aren't pointy haired bosses who could be sold a load of snake oil on the subject but that's probably nowhere you'd want to work anyways. And with medicine pre-existing conditions are a much worse problem than genetics could ever be but thankfully in the US at least our existing laws seem to have that in hand.
red-iron-pine 3y ago
you have genes for red hair, blue-ish green eyes, a facial structure that looks like X, or Y, and a skin tone of Z. with a reasonable degree of accuracy you can then predict what that person looks like. epigenetics and other factors make that something like a "best guess" approximation, but it is a good start.
phero_cnstrcts 3y ago
With digital IDs becoming more integrated in daily life you would probably never even see the job posting.
gurumeditations 3y ago
A lot of places already decide gay people shouldn’t have kids. This is in democracies. Gene scenarios not needed. Only straight supremacy.

seydor 3y ago

sue the first two, get $$$. This is textbook discrimination i avoid dictator governments , which do it anyway already, just based on phenotype

squigz 3y ago
Don't wanna live in a dictatorship? Just avoid it, simple!
lopis 3y ago
> sue the first two, get $$$. This is textbook discrimination Ah but they did no wrong! They just licensed the AI du jur that functions pretty much like a black box, but just so happens to feed on multiple sources of data from dozens of data brokers. One of those brokers aggregates data from other brokers, including DNA data from DNA services. Meanwhile, all the recruiter saw was "37% match" before reading your resume and moved on.
ekianjo 3y ago
> i avoid dictator governments If you are born in one you cannot really escape thats kind of a big design feature you know

blunder_chess 3y ago

In the United States, my understanding is that your medical & employment discrimination scenarios are already illegal due to the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act of 2008. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_Information_Nondiscrimination_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_Information_Nondiscrim...

lrvick 3y ago
Because large corporations have never broken laws before? Or bribed politicians to change them?
- eliasmacpherson 3y ago
  stealing is illegal, so I never lock my front door.
  - HumblyTossed 3y ago
    Keeps you from getting a broken window, so that’s probably not a bad idea. If they want in, a locked door isn’t stopping them.
    - hef19898 3y ago
      The locked door makes all the difference for your insurance claim so.
    - genewitch 3y ago
      In Louisiana, if you leave your car unlocked and someone takes it, it isn't GTA, its unauthorized use of a movable.
- macNchz 3y ago
  > Or bribed politicians to change them? There was already an effort to weaken this law in 2017. It didn’t pass, but if corporations are lobbying for loopholes it would be entirely unsurprising to see some slip into future legislation. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/13/14907250/hr1313-bill-genetic-information https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/13/14907250/h...
- Chris2048 3y ago
  Any law could be subverted via these justifications. "Why should I register my gun when the government itself breaks laws, and its politicians corrupted by bribes!"

leoedin 3y ago

I don't think the first two are necessary a big deal in a western liberal democracy. We already have fairly strict legislation around data protection and selective hiring based on certain characteristics (like ethnicity - which is really just a much less accurate form of genetic classification). There might be a period where we haven't legislated against that sort of stuff. But once we do there's going to be a pretty big paper trail if a potential employer or insurance provider is searching a genetic database for you. Dictators? Yes, they could do that. But they could already send you to the gulag because of how you look, who you're friends with, what you said in the pub etc. It's another tool in their arsenal maybe, but it's not like they don't have a lot anyway.

concordDance 3y ago

> Medical insurance - oh you have cancer/hear attack/etc gene. You premiums skyrocket. This is how insurance is supposed to work. It should reflect your actual risk levels. Now, if what you actually want is socialised healthcare then implement that, trying to backdoor it via insurance gives you the worst of both worlds. > Job opportunities - oh so sorry you have bipolar gene... Then the company that looks at actual behavior rather than genes hires people slightly under market and makes bank. Then other companies start copying them.

ekianjo 3y ago
> This is how insurance is supposed to work. It should reflect your actual risk levels. Of course not. This is how perverse insurance works. Proper insurance systems work by pooling risks into large groups so that the few who are unlucky to have problems at a given point in time are covered. The whole custom risk factor at the individual level is pure exploitation and a travesty of what insurance systems used to stand for.
- _heimdall 3y ago
  I'm not sure that I follow. Whats wrong with insurance companies factoring in DNA markers to put people at risk of cancer or heart attack in a higher risk pool? That's not a custom risk factor at the individual level. Its just using data they believe indicates risk to decide what larger pool the person gets put into.
  - polygamous_bat 3y ago
    You don’t even need DNA data do to that, just use race statistics to increase or decrease your premium! Or do you think that would be illegal?
    - concordDance 3y ago
      Companies use many forms of data to change premiums, many you don't have much control over (e.g. what area of the country you live in). Why is that wrong?

lotsofpulp 3y ago

In the US, it has been 13 years since the PPACA restricted premium pricing to only a handful of factors: https://www.healthcare.gov/how-plans-set-your-premiums https://www.healthcare.gov/how-plans-set-your-premiums >Under the health care law, insurance companies can account for only 5 things when setting premiums. >Age: Premiums can be up to 3 times higher for older people than for younger ones. >Location: Where you live has a big effect on your premiums. Differences in competition, state and local rules, and cost of living account for this. >Tobacco use: Insurers can charge tobacco users up to 50% more than those who don’t use tobacco. >Individual vs. family enrollment: Insurers can charge more for a plan that also covers a spouse and/or dependents. >Plan category: There are five plan categories – Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, and Catastrophic. The categories are based on how you and the plan share costs. Bronze plans usually have lower monthly premiums and higher out-of-pocket costs when you get care. Platinum plans usually have the highest premiums and lowest out-of-pocket costs.

bugglebeetle 3y ago
The age one is completely insane considering the amount of unchecked age discrimination that American employers engage in. We decided to fire Bob because he’s 51 and it’s cheaper to employ a 27 year old. Oh Bob, sorry, BTW your market place plan is now also $1500 a month.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Bob, however, did not have to pay for older people’s healthcare during the 1990s and 2000s. Also, as an fyi, New York and Vermont do not allow age as a factor in pricing, and Massachusetts restricts the age rating factor to 2 instead of 3.
  - bugglebeetle 3y ago
    Everyone pays for everyone else’s healthcare, whether it be insurance pools, Medicaid, CHIPS, Medicare, etc. In America, we just do it in an especially dumb, cruel, and expensive way because it makes some assholes a lot of money.

InitialLastName 3y ago

(Potentially in some US states): Your biological material was found in the bio-waste can of a facility that was performing illegal gynecological operations. You're under arrest for the murder of a fetus.

Symmetry 3y ago

In general, a person's performance in their job is the best evidence for their future performance, followed by tests you can give them, followed by their genes. That's not to say that there aren't pointy haired bosses who could be sold a load of snake oil on the subject but that's probably nowhere you'd want to work anyways. And with medicine pre-existing conditions are a much worse problem than genetics could ever be but thankfully in the US at least our existing laws seem to have that in hand.

red-iron-pine 3y ago

you have genes for red hair, blue-ish green eyes, a facial structure that looks like X, or Y, and a skin tone of Z. with a reasonable degree of accuracy you can then predict what that person looks like. epigenetics and other factors make that something like a "best guess" approximation, but it is a good start.

phero_cnstrcts 3y ago

With digital IDs becoming more integrated in daily life you would probably never even see the job posting.

gurumeditations 3y ago

A lot of places already decide gay people shouldn’t have kids. This is in democracies. Gene scenarios not needed. Only straight supremacy.