4 ms·

When it comes down to it, I think you'll find most people buy Mac for the software. I've tried using Windows and Linux and it's just not as good. If this weren

by dottjt 3y ago

When it comes down to it, I think you'll find most people buy Mac for the software. I've tried using Windows and Linux and it's just not as good. If this weren't the case, then I doubt Apple could charge such exorbitant prices for their hardware.

baz00 3y ago
I'm not sure why you'd go for a Mac for the software? The cloud experience sucks and is really really expensive, most of the provided desktop apps are buggity or so disparate to the rest of the universe that they are a disability and everything is pretty portable. I mean here I am all VSCode + Linux (WSL2) + Office 365 + Adobe + Davinci Resolve + mathematical tools (SciPy/Maxima/Minitab) here. All are portable (apart from Minitab)
- dottjt 3y ago
  One such example is music production. Audio on Mac just works. You can plug in a microphone from 20 years ago and it will just work. With Windows this is not the case. You need appropriate drivers, often which are not available. This is not including all the issues with audio routing etc. I will agree that native cloud sucks on Mac. I would disagree about the desktop apps, I think they are superior to Windows. Programming is also superior on Mac, in my opinion. Personally speaking, the big thing I hate most about Windows are the defaults. Like, the default keyboard shortcuts i.e. using F keys in opinion, is very poor design. Also the lack of an additional modifier key makes Windows less ideal from this point of view. Of course, each OS has their pros and cons. Windows just doesn't work for me.
  - 72deluxe 3y ago
    I've found the opposite. All my Focusrite and Presonus hardware interfaces rely on OSX software that is no longer supported.
    - dottjt 3y ago
      What does the software do that's necessary to make it function? I have a Focusrite and don't rely on software for it to function.
      - 72deluxe 3y ago
        Normally the mixing control software for older hardware that works fine like Saffire Pro (FireWire interface) or a Tascam USB interface that has an internal mixer that is impossible to use on the hardware. Eg. line/instrument switches are done digitally. I ended up going back to Windows to use these and switched to Studio One instead of Logic Pro X.
  - steve1977 3y ago
    > Audio on Mac just works. Except when it doesn’t. Like for example with macOS Ventura, where lots of people had huge problems with audio dropouts on USB interfaces. The problem was never really acknowledged by Apple (as usual), but “magically” fixed in Sonoma (without any mention in release notes). Leaving many users with the dilemma that they should upgrade to Sonoma asap to fix the USB problems, but on the other hand should wait with upgrading because maybe their DAWs or plugins are not compatible with Sonoma yet.
    - dottjt 3y ago
      I agree that it's a problem. But also, you don't have to upgrade to the latest OS. Most people wait to see if there are any problems before they upgrade. I think this applies to most things in life. Especially programming libraries at software companies. It's almost assumed that something will break when you upgrade any kind of system.
      - steve1977 3y ago
        If you bought a Mac with Ventura, you pretty much just “had” the USB problem, without upgrading. And downgrading these machines is somewhere between impossible and a huge pain in the b…
    - baz00 3y ago
      Yeah my piano doesn't work with macOS Ventura suddenly. Audio dies after 2 minutes. I'm only using it for monitoring so I just plug bloody headphones in it and be done with the computer.
    - karmakaze 3y ago
      The audio HDMI output from my MacBook M1 Pro since release always had choppy buffer loops. That is until one of the most recent software updates. Finally it 'just works'.
  - aeonik 3y ago
    I heard this a lot. I did music production on Linux for 5 years, and tried it on Windows for a few months. Then I bought my M1 Mac and was shocked to learn that I think it's actually the least sophisticated, by far. Don't get me wrong, my M1 hardware competes with my 5950x Desktop system... which amazes me. But, Jack2 on Linux was pretty cool, a little rough around the edges, but worked really well. Now with Pipewire becoming the standard, I can't imagine why anyone would pick a platform besides Linux for any real time Audio+Visual routing/processing. It's just so easy to pipe any of your data to any other piece of software, including over the network.
    - breakfastduck 3y ago
      > Now with Pipewire becoming the standard, I can't imagine why anyone would pick a platform besides Linux for any real time Audio+Visual routing/processing. Software compatibility almost entirely non existent for industry standard workflows. > It's just so easy to pipe any of your data to any other piece of software, including over the network. Not a frequently required feature (or at all) for 99% of music production use cases. Linux audio is getting there, but it's a million miles away from being a feasible choice for most people in the industry. I mean, I don't think I could find a single person who would trade their MacBook for a Linux laptop when its running their entire live setup.
  - theyinwhy 3y ago
    What mic where you using 20 years ago in audio production that required drivers? Std interface was and still is XLR.
- dukeyukey 3y ago
  Speaking as someone who bought a Mac for programming reasons but then picked up video editing, iMovie has been a fantastic first-time video editor.
- bborud 3y ago
  I agree that Apple's software is low quality. In too many cases shockingly and consistently so over many years. You are not surprised to see the spinning ball of fail when running Apple software. You expect their developers to make beginners' mistakes. And Apple has some spectacularly useless systems developers that manage to have at least a couple of daemons regularly blow up and use lots of CPU in every release. It is almost like some elaborate running joke. I mean, what idiot wrote the calendar daemon. How the heck do you keep a job as a systems developer when you need to burn 70-80% CPU for prolonged periods of time to sync a calendar that hasn't even had significant use for years? Seriously, if anyone knows who wrote it, I'd be interested to understand how things went so wrong for them. Yes, Apple's software sucks. However, I don't buy Apple to use their software or their cloud services. I use macs for the same things you do: run the applications I need to do my job. Applications that are not made by Apple. My list of requirements isn't long. - Must be a unix variant - Must be decent hardware (most laptops are horrible) - Must be able to run the developer tools I use - Must be able to run Fusion 360 - Must be able to run professional photo editing software - Nice if it can run Ableton Live That's it.
- nicbou 3y ago
  I keep going back to MacOS because it works fine, stays out of my way, and has the Unix stuff I work with. I'm ready to pay a lot of money for an OS that neither annoys me nor demands work from me. The apps themselves... yeah they're mostly the same.
delta_p_delta_x 3y ago
> most people buy Mac for the software IMO the last OS release that was extremely smooth and nearly completely bug-free was Mac OS X Snow Leopard. Nearly everything afterwards was a slow downwards spiral, both in terms of useability and quality.
- karmakaze 3y ago
  But Lion let you resize windows from any corner or edge. It does mark a turning point with the loss of Front Row and iTunes keep getting worse.
Gigachad 3y ago
After having so many windows laptops fall to pieces quite literally, I just get the MacBook now. They last so much longer and you easily get your monies worth
pjmlp 3y ago
For the price of Macs, I get Lenovo and Dell graphic workstation like laptops, e.g. Thinkpad P series. While I am a big NeXTSTEP fan, I am not paying for the experience in detriment of less capable hardware, specially when I can just rent Mac hardware from work from our R&D pool.
whynotmaybe 3y ago
No, the only reason I'm gonna buy a Mac is to be able to build & publish an iPhone app. The Apple ecosystem is closed, you must pay the Apple hardware tax to get in.
rhuru 3y ago
I switched from Lenovo X1 Carbon and totally gave up on Windows and bought an Mac again. Windows has become some kind of shitty garbage of an OS. Reminds me of the toolbar creep in IE that use to happen 10 years ago. Now the entire OS is fucking like that.
- anacrolix 3y ago
  Amen. Just started a job where they expected me to use Windows as a programmer. Not a fucking chance.
alimbada 3y ago
I don't. I buy Apple products for the hardware. They last and they work when it comes to iOS. When it comes to Macs, the software usability is shite. I've had to resort to 3rd party apps (Amethyst, AltTab) to be able to effectively organise and switch windows.

by dottjt 3y ago

baz00 3y ago

I'm not sure why you'd go for a Mac for the software? The cloud experience sucks and is really really expensive, most of the provided desktop apps are buggity or so disparate to the rest of the universe that they are a disability and everything is pretty portable. I mean here I am all VSCode + Linux (WSL2) + Office 365 + Adobe + Davinci Resolve + mathematical tools (SciPy/Maxima/Minitab) here. All are portable (apart from Minitab)

dottjt 3y ago
One such example is music production. Audio on Mac just works. You can plug in a microphone from 20 years ago and it will just work. With Windows this is not the case. You need appropriate drivers, often which are not available. This is not including all the issues with audio routing etc. I will agree that native cloud sucks on Mac. I would disagree about the desktop apps, I think they are superior to Windows. Programming is also superior on Mac, in my opinion. Personally speaking, the big thing I hate most about Windows are the defaults. Like, the default keyboard shortcuts i.e. using F keys in opinion, is very poor design. Also the lack of an additional modifier key makes Windows less ideal from this point of view. Of course, each OS has their pros and cons. Windows just doesn't work for me.
- 72deluxe 3y ago
  I've found the opposite. All my Focusrite and Presonus hardware interfaces rely on OSX software that is no longer supported.
  - dottjt 3y ago
    What does the software do that's necessary to make it function? I have a Focusrite and don't rely on software for it to function.
    - 72deluxe 3y ago
      Normally the mixing control software for older hardware that works fine like Saffire Pro (FireWire interface) or a Tascam USB interface that has an internal mixer that is impossible to use on the hardware. Eg. line/instrument switches are done digitally. I ended up going back to Windows to use these and switched to Studio One instead of Logic Pro X.
- steve1977 3y ago
  > Audio on Mac just works. Except when it doesn’t. Like for example with macOS Ventura, where lots of people had huge problems with audio dropouts on USB interfaces. The problem was never really acknowledged by Apple (as usual), but “magically” fixed in Sonoma (without any mention in release notes). Leaving many users with the dilemma that they should upgrade to Sonoma asap to fix the USB problems, but on the other hand should wait with upgrading because maybe their DAWs or plugins are not compatible with Sonoma yet.
  - dottjt 3y ago
    I agree that it's a problem. But also, you don't have to upgrade to the latest OS. Most people wait to see if there are any problems before they upgrade. I think this applies to most things in life. Especially programming libraries at software companies. It's almost assumed that something will break when you upgrade any kind of system.
    - steve1977 3y ago
      If you bought a Mac with Ventura, you pretty much just “had” the USB problem, without upgrading. And downgrading these machines is somewhere between impossible and a huge pain in the b…
  - baz00 3y ago
    Yeah my piano doesn't work with macOS Ventura suddenly. Audio dies after 2 minutes. I'm only using it for monitoring so I just plug bloody headphones in it and be done with the computer.
  - karmakaze 3y ago
    The audio HDMI output from my MacBook M1 Pro since release always had choppy buffer loops. That is until one of the most recent software updates. Finally it 'just works'.
- aeonik 3y ago
  I heard this a lot. I did music production on Linux for 5 years, and tried it on Windows for a few months. Then I bought my M1 Mac and was shocked to learn that I think it's actually the least sophisticated, by far. Don't get me wrong, my M1 hardware competes with my 5950x Desktop system... which amazes me. But, Jack2 on Linux was pretty cool, a little rough around the edges, but worked really well. Now with Pipewire becoming the standard, I can't imagine why anyone would pick a platform besides Linux for any real time Audio+Visual routing/processing. It's just so easy to pipe any of your data to any other piece of software, including over the network.
  - breakfastduck 3y ago
    > Now with Pipewire becoming the standard, I can't imagine why anyone would pick a platform besides Linux for any real time Audio+Visual routing/processing. Software compatibility almost entirely non existent for industry standard workflows. > It's just so easy to pipe any of your data to any other piece of software, including over the network. Not a frequently required feature (or at all) for 99% of music production use cases. Linux audio is getting there, but it's a million miles away from being a feasible choice for most people in the industry. I mean, I don't think I could find a single person who would trade their MacBook for a Linux laptop when its running their entire live setup.
- theyinwhy 3y ago
  What mic where you using 20 years ago in audio production that required drivers? Std interface was and still is XLR.
dukeyukey 3y ago
Speaking as someone who bought a Mac for programming reasons but then picked up video editing, iMovie has been a fantastic first-time video editor.
bborud 3y ago
I agree that Apple's software is low quality. In too many cases shockingly and consistently so over many years. You are not surprised to see the spinning ball of fail when running Apple software. You expect their developers to make beginners' mistakes. And Apple has some spectacularly useless systems developers that manage to have at least a couple of daemons regularly blow up and use lots of CPU in every release. It is almost like some elaborate running joke. I mean, what idiot wrote the calendar daemon. How the heck do you keep a job as a systems developer when you need to burn 70-80% CPU for prolonged periods of time to sync a calendar that hasn't even had significant use for years? Seriously, if anyone knows who wrote it, I'd be interested to understand how things went so wrong for them. Yes, Apple's software sucks. However, I don't buy Apple to use their software or their cloud services. I use macs for the same things you do: run the applications I need to do my job. Applications that are not made by Apple. My list of requirements isn't long. - Must be a unix variant - Must be decent hardware (most laptops are horrible) - Must be able to run the developer tools I use - Must be able to run Fusion 360 - Must be able to run professional photo editing software - Nice if it can run Ableton Live That's it.
nicbou 3y ago
I keep going back to MacOS because it works fine, stays out of my way, and has the Unix stuff I work with. I'm ready to pay a lot of money for an OS that neither annoys me nor demands work from me. The apps themselves... yeah they're mostly the same.

delta_p_delta_x 3y ago

> most people buy Mac for the software IMO the last OS release that was extremely smooth and nearly completely bug-free was Mac OS X Snow Leopard. Nearly everything afterwards was a slow downwards spiral, both in terms of useability and quality.

karmakaze 3y ago
But Lion let you resize windows from any corner or edge. It does mark a turning point with the loss of Front Row and iTunes keep getting worse.

Gigachad 3y ago

After having so many windows laptops fall to pieces quite literally, I just get the MacBook now. They last so much longer and you easily get your monies worth

pjmlp 3y ago

For the price of Macs, I get Lenovo and Dell graphic workstation like laptops, e.g. Thinkpad P series. While I am a big NeXTSTEP fan, I am not paying for the experience in detriment of less capable hardware, specially when I can just rent Mac hardware from work from our R&D pool.

whynotmaybe 3y ago

No, the only reason I'm gonna buy a Mac is to be able to build & publish an iPhone app. The Apple ecosystem is closed, you must pay the Apple hardware tax to get in.

rhuru 3y ago

I switched from Lenovo X1 Carbon and totally gave up on Windows and bought an Mac again. Windows has become some kind of shitty garbage of an OS. Reminds me of the toolbar creep in IE that use to happen 10 years ago. Now the entire OS is fucking like that.

anacrolix 3y ago
Amen. Just started a job where they expected me to use Windows as a programmer. Not a fucking chance.

alimbada 3y ago

I don't. I buy Apple products for the hardware. They last and they work when it comes to iOS. When it comes to Macs, the software usability is shite. I've had to resort to 3rd party apps (Amethyst, AltTab) to be able to effectively organise and switch windows.