3 ms·

The fraction of people with luxury beliefs that also have to request vacation days to a manager is too high to be an exclusive upper class signal. Private jets

by j7ake 3y ago

The fraction of people with luxury beliefs that also have to request vacation days to a manager is too high to be an exclusive upper class signal. Private jets, yachts, personal cooks and butlers are truer symbols of the upper class.

hbossy 3y ago
Yes, but these people don't really interact with lower classes. I think what author wanted to describe is signaling in situations where people just a few social ladder steps apart meet each other. Like gathering in local church or family reunion. Everyone dress basically the same, everyone eat the same grandmas cake but one cousin is MIT-educated engineer, one owns a car dealership and one stack shelves in Walmart.
sokoloff 3y ago
“A Rolex isn’t a status symbol if you use it to know when your lunch break is over…”
denton-scratch 3y ago
> Private jets, yachts, personal cooks and butlers are truer symbols of the upper class. Those are all signs of wealth; most classy people would actively avoid them, even if they're wealthy. I'm from the UK; I suspect that in the USA, it's easier to raise your social class by simply spending money. Here, social class by default is inherited. It's reinforced by where you went to school. Most people of high social class are slightly embarrassed about it; showing it off is seen as tacky.
- j7ake 3y ago
  Are you saying the upper class in UK eg the royal family actively avoids flying private and making their own breakfast and doing their own laundry? Or is the royal family not classy? Would be happy to hear examples of upper class UK people who still do their own laundry and flies coach.
  - dagw 3y ago
    Class and wealth are entirely separate in the UK. There are lot of of upper class class people without a lot of wealth. Most of them don't have butlers and private jets and many of them no doubt do their own laundry and fly coach.
  - denton-scratch 3y ago
    The royal family is rather an extreme example; they are classy as well as being powerful and wealthy. They royals are the epitome of aristocracy; people descended from kings and peers of the realm are a small minority of the upper class. Sometimes classy people fall on hard times; so yes, they make their own breakfast. But they don't lose their class. Flying coach is also an extreme example; anyone who can afford business class avoids flying sardine-grade. And it's mostly business people that zoom around in private jets; those denote wealth and power, not class. You can "upgrade" your class, sometimes; a commission in a "good" army regiment can get you upgraded. They train their officers in how to behave in classy company. Public schools serve the same purpose, but are less effective. I'm not familiar with the domestic arrangements of any upper-class people, so I can't give you examples you asked for. But for the most part, they're not famous, so you wouldn't have heard of them anyway; after all, famous people can trade their fame for wealth. I've known quite a few people of class who had to work for a living, e.g. as teachers. [Edit] OK, well-known example: Princess Diana (Diana Spencer). Until she hitched up with the Prince of Wales, she was a nursery teacher, and lived in shared accomodation (i.e. no servants). Of course, she was never stuck for a penny or two; the Spencers are a wealthy, aristocratic family.
    - erik_seaberg 3y ago
      When Americans see “public school” we think of what you would probably call a “state school,” funded by taxes and not at all targeting elites.
      - denton-scratch 3y ago
        Yeah, I know; but I don't know a better word. In this context, it's not about education you have to pay for privately; it's about a group of institutions designed to train the ruling class, particularly the colonial civil service. You do have to pay, though...
- lupire 3y ago
  "class" and "classy" are different words. "class" is a social status. "classy" is a behavioral style.
  - denton-scratch 3y ago
    OK, I accept that distinction. But IME it's the behaviour that confers the status. Sure, wealthy people can have status despite behaving like oiks; but that kind of status isn't "upper class". Class is recognized from how you speak, how you treat others, your taste, and things like knowing which fork to use.

by j7ake 3y ago

hbossy 3y ago

Yes, but these people don't really interact with lower classes. I think what author wanted to describe is signaling in situations where people just a few social ladder steps apart meet each other. Like gathering in local church or family reunion. Everyone dress basically the same, everyone eat the same grandmas cake but one cousin is MIT-educated engineer, one owns a car dealership and one stack shelves in Walmart.

sokoloff 3y ago

“A Rolex isn’t a status symbol if you use it to know when your lunch break is over…”

denton-scratch 3y ago

> Private jets, yachts, personal cooks and butlers are truer symbols of the upper class. Those are all signs of wealth; most classy people would actively avoid them, even if they're wealthy. I'm from the UK; I suspect that in the USA, it's easier to raise your social class by simply spending money. Here, social class by default is inherited. It's reinforced by where you went to school. Most people of high social class are slightly embarrassed about it; showing it off is seen as tacky.

j7ake 3y ago
Are you saying the upper class in UK eg the royal family actively avoids flying private and making their own breakfast and doing their own laundry? Or is the royal family not classy? Would be happy to hear examples of upper class UK people who still do their own laundry and flies coach.
- dagw 3y ago
  Class and wealth are entirely separate in the UK. There are lot of of upper class class people without a lot of wealth. Most of them don't have butlers and private jets and many of them no doubt do their own laundry and fly coach.
- denton-scratch 3y ago
  The royal family is rather an extreme example; they are classy as well as being powerful and wealthy. They royals are the epitome of aristocracy; people descended from kings and peers of the realm are a small minority of the upper class. Sometimes classy people fall on hard times; so yes, they make their own breakfast. But they don't lose their class. Flying coach is also an extreme example; anyone who can afford business class avoids flying sardine-grade. And it's mostly business people that zoom around in private jets; those denote wealth and power, not class. You can "upgrade" your class, sometimes; a commission in a "good" army regiment can get you upgraded. They train their officers in how to behave in classy company. Public schools serve the same purpose, but are less effective. I'm not familiar with the domestic arrangements of any upper-class people, so I can't give you examples you asked for. But for the most part, they're not famous, so you wouldn't have heard of them anyway; after all, famous people can trade their fame for wealth. I've known quite a few people of class who had to work for a living, e.g. as teachers. [Edit] OK, well-known example: Princess Diana (Diana Spencer). Until she hitched up with the Prince of Wales, she was a nursery teacher, and lived in shared accomodation (i.e. no servants). Of course, she was never stuck for a penny or two; the Spencers are a wealthy, aristocratic family.
  - erik_seaberg 3y ago
    When Americans see “public school” we think of what you would probably call a “state school,” funded by taxes and not at all targeting elites.
    - denton-scratch 3y ago
      Yeah, I know; but I don't know a better word. In this context, it's not about education you have to pay for privately; it's about a group of institutions designed to train the ruling class, particularly the colonial civil service. You do have to pay, though...
lupire 3y ago
"class" and "classy" are different words. "class" is a social status. "classy" is a behavioral style.
- denton-scratch 3y ago
  OK, I accept that distinction. But IME it's the behaviour that confers the status. Sure, wealthy people can have status despite behaving like oiks; but that kind of status isn't "upper class". Class is recognized from how you speak, how you treat others, your taste, and things like knowing which fork to use.