5 ms·

This is one reason the Steam Deck model of being an open console system is the future. Some dinosaurs wants to preserve the old locked-down console experience,

by lawn 3y ago

This is one reason the Steam Deck model of being an open console system is the future. Some dinosaurs wants to preserve the old locked-down console experience, where you have exclusive games, controllers and digital stores. But its just worse for the customer in every way.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Not every way; you have more control over quality and experience in a closed system. I mean yeah it sucks, but so does spending money on a controller that isn't good enough. edit: I'm reading somewhere else it's to stop cheat enabled controllers. Wouldn't want to play multiplayer games if someone has an unfair advantage like that.
- _xivi 3y ago
  > you have more control over quality and experience > I'm reading somewhere else it's to stop cheat enabled controllers No, it's always been about revenue. I never understand why people take company's word and run with it. Are they actually fooled? Of course, the company won't be blunt and say to the consumer: honestly, we force you to buy from us because it make us more money. This is really weird "solution". They likely worked backward. Spotted a market opportunity, then brainstormed plausible justifications. This remind of Apple claiming its anti-repair policy is there to fight theft. Repeat that enough times and you start to believe it.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    Maybe people don’t like playing video games with cheaters and they do like that their items’ value will plummet to near-zero if they’re stolen. Maybe these are more relevant to most consumers than abstract complaints on Hackernews about “freedom.” Have you considered that?
    - kipchak 3y ago
      >Maybe these are more relevant to most consumers than abstract complaints on Hackernews about “freedom.” It seems like the parent is complaining about people taking business' explanations at face value when there's a likely different motive, not "freedom".
  - jowea 3y ago
    Can't it be both reasons?
    - trey-jones 3y ago
      I think it would be naive to believe that this initiative was spawned out of another way than: "How can we reclaim market share from 3rd party hardware manufacturers?" They are almost certainly coming at it from a revenue standpoint and then working the marketing spin in whatever way they think will resonate most their users. This is not a pro-consumer decision. It is monopolistic. "Curated" is a euphemism.
  - jasonlotito 3y ago
    > I never understand why people take company's word and run with it. They aren't. The customers are the ones complaining about this. Microsoft is doing what its user base wants. People on XBox typically use a controller and do not want to face people on a KBM. Sure, it's about revenue. That revenue is not from controller sales. Rather, it's about keeping it's customer-base happy, and the general sentiment from the community is that these tools aren't good for the overwhelming majority of players. You might disagree with that opinion, but I can't take you seriously if you aren't aware of the general sentiment of the community and how Microsoft is doing what it's paying customers want.
- 0dayz 3y ago
  If this was true then Microsoft could've made it so that you gave to have a certified controller.
  - nirvdrum 3y ago
    Isn’t that what they’re doing with this change in policy?
waveBidder 3y ago
Good thing Microsoft didn't just buy a major AAA game company to decrease the odds of that working.
- SXX 3y ago
  Microsoft still releases majority of games for Windows. Sony buying them would be much larger problem.
  - izacus 3y ago
    Many of Windows games block Steam Deck linux distro to "preserve experience" and "prevent cheating".
    - lawn 3y ago
      Afaik this isn't true. What some games have is a particularly invasive anti-cheat that's not supported on Proton. But it's not targeting Steam Deck in particular, it's just a side-effect.
      - izacus 3y ago
        What's not true? That games block open hardware with excuse of cheating prevention just like Microsoft blocks other hardware with same excuse on Xbox? That's trivially verifiable. For end user it makes no different whether it's a side effect or not.
        shkkmo 3y ago
        If it is "trivially verifiable" then you should be able to provide examples. Some anti cheat tools, such as "Easy Anti Cheat" are supported on Steam Deck, some are not supported yet. Perhaps some will never be supported. AFAIK these later categories are generally due to anti cheat hooking into low level windows functionality that Proton doesn't support. You could argue this is "blocking open software" but that would be a stretch since this behavior is generally better described as a lack of support rather than explicit blocking None of it is due to game publishers including code that limits the hardware that windows runs on (blocking open hardware).
belugacat 3y ago
The day Valve falls, for whatever reason (greed, incompetence, some impossible to predict market shift/tech innovation... Gabe doesn't have decades and decades left as CEO after all) - the open world of PC gaming as we know it will probably fall, to be devoured by the Microsoft/Epic/Ubisoft/etc of the world. Compared to most other tech/gaming companies, it's shocking how non predatory and customer friendly they are. I've been able to maintain my digital library for almost 2 decades now, I've played those games on dozens of different hardware configuration without having to pay a single cent for it - compared to my other digital libraries, many of which (Wii, 3DS, PSP, etc) are completely lost to time.
- RunSet 3y ago
  > Compared to most other tech/gaming companies, it's shocking how non predatory and customer friendly they are. That is a low bar indeed. Steam got its initial install base because Valve bought Counter-Strike and then made Steam a functional requirement to play it.
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    I mean this in the nicest way but "we used to hate steam you know" is some sure-grandma-lets-get-you-to-bed meme shit.
    - RunSet 3y ago
      Alternatively, a way to put children to bed: "Once upon a time, we enjoyed the right of first sale[0]..." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  I think Valve gets way too much credit. They haven't abused their market position as much as they could have but they did normalize always-online DRM schemes. CS2 skin trading is also a hive of illegal/underage gambling and scams. If you want to valorize a digital games retailers, I would suggest GOG is a better candidate.
Toutouxc 3y ago
I don't know, I very much enjoy the dinosaur PlayStation 5 experience, significantly more than my gaming PC (that I only use for flight-simming now). I mean, if Steam unveiled a new Steam Deck-style box with all the power, support, polish and sales of Xbox at least, I'd probably agree with you, but at this point I can't see how open console systems are "the future". Steam Deck sells because it's a great portable gaming system that can run AAA titles surprisingly well (unlike the poor underpowered Switch), and only then because it's more open than the (not direct) competition.
dncornholio 3y ago
A gaming device controller by Microsoft is nothing different from a gaming device controller by Valve.
- lawn 3y ago
  The difference is that Valve allows you to use a gaming device from anyone. And even if they wanted to block you, that wouldn't really work as you can either go around it (via the power of Linux) or just install Windows and make it work that way.
bentcorner 3y ago
Just last week we had people getting banned from CS2 because of AMD driver features. Cheat detection is on every platform.
pipeline_peak 3y ago
No, the future of gaming is streaming.

by lawn 3y ago

Cthulhu_ 3y ago

Not every way; you have more control over quality and experience in a closed system. I mean yeah it sucks, but so does spending money on a controller that isn't good enough. edit: I'm reading somewhere else it's to stop cheat enabled controllers. Wouldn't want to play multiplayer games if someone has an unfair advantage like that.

_xivi 3y ago
> you have more control over quality and experience > I'm reading somewhere else it's to stop cheat enabled controllers No, it's always been about revenue. I never understand why people take company's word and run with it. Are they actually fooled? Of course, the company won't be blunt and say to the consumer: honestly, we force you to buy from us because it make us more money. This is really weird "solution". They likely worked backward. Spotted a market opportunity, then brainstormed plausible justifications. This remind of Apple claiming its anti-repair policy is there to fight theft. Repeat that enough times and you start to believe it.
- ethanbond 3y ago
  Maybe people don’t like playing video games with cheaters and they do like that their items’ value will plummet to near-zero if they’re stolen. Maybe these are more relevant to most consumers than abstract complaints on Hackernews about “freedom.” Have you considered that?
  - kipchak 3y ago
    >Maybe these are more relevant to most consumers than abstract complaints on Hackernews about “freedom.” It seems like the parent is complaining about people taking business' explanations at face value when there's a likely different motive, not "freedom".
- jowea 3y ago
  Can't it be both reasons?
  - trey-jones 3y ago
    I think it would be naive to believe that this initiative was spawned out of another way than: "How can we reclaim market share from 3rd party hardware manufacturers?" They are almost certainly coming at it from a revenue standpoint and then working the marketing spin in whatever way they think will resonate most their users. This is not a pro-consumer decision. It is monopolistic. "Curated" is a euphemism.
- jasonlotito 3y ago
  > I never understand why people take company's word and run with it. They aren't. The customers are the ones complaining about this. Microsoft is doing what its user base wants. People on XBox typically use a controller and do not want to face people on a KBM. Sure, it's about revenue. That revenue is not from controller sales. Rather, it's about keeping it's customer-base happy, and the general sentiment from the community is that these tools aren't good for the overwhelming majority of players. You might disagree with that opinion, but I can't take you seriously if you aren't aware of the general sentiment of the community and how Microsoft is doing what it's paying customers want.
0dayz 3y ago
If this was true then Microsoft could've made it so that you gave to have a certified controller.
- nirvdrum 3y ago
  Isn’t that what they’re doing with this change in policy?

waveBidder 3y ago

Good thing Microsoft didn't just buy a major AAA game company to decrease the odds of that working.

SXX 3y ago
Microsoft still releases majority of games for Windows. Sony buying them would be much larger problem.
- izacus 3y ago
  Many of Windows games block Steam Deck linux distro to "preserve experience" and "prevent cheating".
  - lawn 3y ago
    Afaik this isn't true. What some games have is a particularly invasive anti-cheat that's not supported on Proton. But it's not targeting Steam Deck in particular, it's just a side-effect.
    - izacus 3y ago
      What's not true? That games block open hardware with excuse of cheating prevention just like Microsoft blocks other hardware with same excuse on Xbox? That's trivially verifiable. For end user it makes no different whether it's a side effect or not.
      - shkkmo 3y ago
        If it is "trivially verifiable" then you should be able to provide examples. Some anti cheat tools, such as "Easy Anti Cheat" are supported on Steam Deck, some are not supported yet. Perhaps some will never be supported. AFAIK these later categories are generally due to anti cheat hooking into low level windows functionality that Proton doesn't support. You could argue this is "blocking open software" but that would be a stretch since this behavior is generally better described as a lack of support rather than explicit blocking None of it is due to game publishers including code that limits the hardware that windows runs on (blocking open hardware).

belugacat 3y ago

The day Valve falls, for whatever reason (greed, incompetence, some impossible to predict market shift/tech innovation... Gabe doesn't have decades and decades left as CEO after all) - the open world of PC gaming as we know it will probably fall, to be devoured by the Microsoft/Epic/Ubisoft/etc of the world. Compared to most other tech/gaming companies, it's shocking how non predatory and customer friendly they are. I've been able to maintain my digital library for almost 2 decades now, I've played those games on dozens of different hardware configuration without having to pay a single cent for it - compared to my other digital libraries, many of which (Wii, 3DS, PSP, etc) are completely lost to time.

RunSet 3y ago
> Compared to most other tech/gaming companies, it's shocking how non predatory and customer friendly they are. That is a low bar indeed. Steam got its initial install base because Valve bought Counter-Strike and then made Steam a functional requirement to play it.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  I mean this in the nicest way but "we used to hate steam you know" is some sure-grandma-lets-get-you-to-bed meme shit.
  - RunSet 3y ago
    Alternatively, a way to put children to bed: "Once upon a time, we enjoyed the right of first sale[0]..." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine
AlexandrB 3y ago
I think Valve gets way too much credit. They haven't abused their market position as much as they could have but they did normalize always-online DRM schemes. CS2 skin trading is also a hive of illegal/underage gambling and scams. If you want to valorize a digital games retailers, I would suggest GOG is a better candidate.

Toutouxc 3y ago

I don't know, I very much enjoy the dinosaur PlayStation 5 experience, significantly more than my gaming PC (that I only use for flight-simming now). I mean, if Steam unveiled a new Steam Deck-style box with all the power, support, polish and sales of Xbox at least, I'd probably agree with you, but at this point I can't see how open console systems are "the future". Steam Deck sells because it's a great portable gaming system that can run AAA titles surprisingly well (unlike the poor underpowered Switch), and only then because it's more open than the (not direct) competition.

dncornholio 3y ago

A gaming device controller by Microsoft is nothing different from a gaming device controller by Valve.

lawn 3y ago
The difference is that Valve allows you to use a gaming device from anyone. And even if they wanted to block you, that wouldn't really work as you can either go around it (via the power of Linux) or just install Windows and make it work that way.

bentcorner 3y ago

Just last week we had people getting banned from CS2 because of AMD driver features. Cheat detection is on every platform.

pipeline_peak 3y ago

No, the future of gaming is streaming.