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>My DNA isn't some terrible secret I have to hide in the dark. Considering we leave our DNA basically everywhere we spend more than a few moments, it seems lik

by slg 3y ago

>My DNA isn't some terrible secret I have to hide in the dark. Considering we leave our DNA basically everywhere we spend more than a few moments, it seems like a rather impossible task to keep it secret anyway. I mean if we are fearing some dystopian world in which people are discriminated against based on their DNA profiles, why would that only apply to people who volunteered their DNA?

notahacker 3y ago
Yeah, this. If an entity really wants to screen your DNA, there are easier routes than figuring out how to deanonymise you from a collection of thousands of profiles with basic demographic info they've just bought or paying enough to convince the entity with the very profitable lawful line in selling anonymised data to break the law for them.
RHSeeger 3y ago
This is a matter of scale, though. There is a big difference between - Someone wants to know if your DNA matches the killer's... so they get a hold of your DNA and test it - The companies you interact with all have easy access to everyone's DNA and can make decisions based on things like who is the most likely to get addicted to gambling. We've been fighting tooth and nail to prevent things like "people with hispanic surnames have a harder time getting a loan for a house". It's illegal to do so, and we still have problems with it. Now talking about adding in all kinds of "this person is more likely to have this condition" into those calculations. And they WILL be included if they're available; even if it's not obvious.
- slg 3y ago
  >- The companies you interact with all have easy access to everyone's DNA and can make decisions based on things like who is the most likely to get addicted to gambling. Yes, that is exactly my point. In these hypothetical dystopias, this is going to apply to "everyone's DNA" and not just some subset of people. In order to fear volunteering your DNA, you need to fear a very specific level of dystopia in which this illegal DNA discriminating becomes common, but companies don't do anything illegal to acquire the DNA data. It is like imagining that people could have escaped Nazi persecution if they just never admitted they were Jewish. Dystopias don't work like that. The evil people aren't going to give you a choice. If we are going to live in a dystopia, it likely isn't going to be the Goldilocks dystopia in which just the right amount of evilness exists for this to be an issue.
lm28469 3y ago
> Considering we leave our DNA basically everywhere we spend more than a few moments, it seems like a rather impossible task to keep it secret anyway. This is the "encryption should be illegal because I have nothing to hide" level of argumentation.
- slg 3y ago
  No it isn't. I never said anything about making hiding DNA illegal, just that it is impractical. If you want to map it onto cryptography, I'm making the rubber-hose cryptanalysis argument[1][2]. People are worried about some evil entity going through proper channels for their evilness when there are more blunt and direct ways to get what they want. [1] - https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/ [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-hose_cryptanalysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-hose_cryptanalysis

by slg 3y ago

notahacker 3y ago

Yeah, this. If an entity really wants to screen your DNA, there are easier routes than figuring out how to deanonymise you from a collection of thousands of profiles with basic demographic info they've just bought or paying enough to convince the entity with the very profitable lawful line in selling anonymised data to break the law for them.

RHSeeger 3y ago

This is a matter of scale, though. There is a big difference between - Someone wants to know if your DNA matches the killer's... so they get a hold of your DNA and test it - The companies you interact with all have easy access to everyone's DNA and can make decisions based on things like who is the most likely to get addicted to gambling. We've been fighting tooth and nail to prevent things like "people with hispanic surnames have a harder time getting a loan for a house". It's illegal to do so, and we still have problems with it. Now talking about adding in all kinds of "this person is more likely to have this condition" into those calculations. And they WILL be included if they're available; even if it's not obvious.

slg 3y ago
>- The companies you interact with all have easy access to everyone's DNA and can make decisions based on things like who is the most likely to get addicted to gambling. Yes, that is exactly my point. In these hypothetical dystopias, this is going to apply to "everyone's DNA" and not just some subset of people. In order to fear volunteering your DNA, you need to fear a very specific level of dystopia in which this illegal DNA discriminating becomes common, but companies don't do anything illegal to acquire the DNA data. It is like imagining that people could have escaped Nazi persecution if they just never admitted they were Jewish. Dystopias don't work like that. The evil people aren't going to give you a choice. If we are going to live in a dystopia, it likely isn't going to be the Goldilocks dystopia in which just the right amount of evilness exists for this to be an issue.

lm28469 3y ago

> Considering we leave our DNA basically everywhere we spend more than a few moments, it seems like a rather impossible task to keep it secret anyway. This is the "encryption should be illegal because I have nothing to hide" level of argumentation.

slg 3y ago
No it isn't. I never said anything about making hiding DNA illegal, just that it is impractical. If you want to map it onto cryptography, I'm making the rubber-hose cryptanalysis argument[1][2]. People are worried about some evil entity going through proper channels for their evilness when there are more blunt and direct ways to get what they want. [1] - https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/ [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-hose_cryptanalysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-hose_cryptanalysis