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Perhaps the most interesting thing is the UK pricing. I paid £1899 for my M1 Pro. The M2 Pro was £2149. The M3 Pro is £1899 again for same spec. The insults ho
by baz00 3y ago
Perhaps the most interesting thing is the UK pricing. I paid £1899 for my M1 Pro. The M2 Pro was £2149. The M3 Pro is £1899 again for same spec.
The insults however come now. There is now a £1699 8Gb option. Seriously in 2023? 8Gb?!?! And you can get an i7 Lenovo T14 gen 4 with 32Gb of RAM and 1TB disk for £1297. Every 8Gb RAM increment with Apple is a complete rip off.
And the total build price for my silent i5-13500, 32Gb, 1TB desktop with an RTX 4070 and 27" 4k Dell monitor was £50 less than the base level 8Gb MacBook Pro.
No thanks. I'm out.
- drcongo 3y agoBut, then you've got a Lenovo.
- nirui 3y agoLenovo Lenovo Lenovo.... where do I start... My Motorola (owned by Lenovo now) One Power phone got a dead pixel on it's screen :) My Lenovo monitor not only got a dead pixel, within a year it also developed a horizontal dead line. I was very lucky that it happened a month before the warranty expires. And after the repair, the new replacement screen also got a dead pixel on it :) My new Thinkpad dead within days after I received the machine, and it took over a month for the repair to complete :) The monitor and Thinkpad were directly brought from Lenovo, shipped straight out from their warehouses, so no one else to blame. Oh did I forgot the Thunderbolt controller firmware issue in my previous Thinkpad T480 :) It's safe to say I'm not very happy with Lenovo. ... But on the over hand, for who's planing to buy a Macbook, I usually recommend them to watch these videos first just to lift the spirit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR7m4aUxHcM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR7m4aUxHcM (this is part 3, there are also part 1 and part 2) I mean, guess why I'm still with Thinkpads :) BTW: It wasn't me who downvoted you :)
- baz00 3y agoyeah Lenovo support is shit. It's why I just buy two of them most of the time :)
- larodi 3y agoWell, price includes membership for the sect of ‘good morning, Amazing’… Honestly I feel much more in place with a win11 setup recently. For a dev who does not rely on apple’s Xcode etc it makes very little difference. Besides win11 is scary snappy on every decent box, not only Microsoft surfaces. And except for the speed gains, the gains from using OSX have been diminishing rapidly for years. Sticking with osx12 on some devices does not impact my workflow at all. I guess I can go back to 10.x and … VScode, git, etc will still work the same. Speaking of security et al - well that’s fine, but some of the most aggressive hacks are targeted at OSX.
- baz00 3y agoAgree on all counts. I'm mostly just happy since I switched back to windows 11 that I've got an OS I can actually drive from a keyboard that doesn't leave my hands brutally mangled from meta key combinations.
- irusensei 3y agoNo doubt current day Windows is a capable device for all tasks. Too bad it treats you like a free user by clogging your operating system with ads while spying on you like a crazy stalker.
- baz00 3y agoI don't get any ads. But yeah I'll give you that on the Telemetry.
- smoldesu 3y agoHonestly it doesn't feel any different for me on MacOS. Both OSes push first-party music and cloud services, both OSes beg you to use their browser, both OSes show news with their own built-in ad networks. At this point for Windows 11 and MacOS 13, I'm shocked how little these OSes have meaningfully changed since the early 2000s. Both companies feel like they're taking a detour around user empowerment to focus on Selling Moar Services™. While we're looking at things from a retro-idealist lens, even Android and iOS seem unnecessarily bloated. It feels like the vast majority of every FAANG's engineering effort goes into crippling the user nowadays.
- tmikaeld 3y agoThere's no other computer that has this performance on integrated GPU, unified memory and battery time. But if you don't need any of that, of course even a used windows laptop would do and can have 32GB RAM. I paid 2200€ for the M2 Macbook Pro in Sweden, but PC hardware sales have been tanking hard, so I think the pricing reflects that.
- baz00 3y agoBut as I found, it has too many drawbacks. Firstly, you can't add any more RAM to it. This turned out to be a BIG problem for me as I handle a lot of fairly huge RAW files in Adobe Lightroom. Then there's the fact that it actually spends 95% of its time docked to my Studio Display and using the BT mouse and keyboard which fuck out all the time. And the battery life isn't as great as people make it out to be. If I am on the road, which is basically never, then I'm lucky if I get 4 hours out of it. So I thought sod it, why shouldn't I just have a proper desktop instead which solves all of these problems. I looked at the M2 studio, went pfffft at the price, and threw together a windows desktop. I've got hard wired keyboard, mouse, ethernet and headset and I can throw another TB in it or double the RAM to 64Gb for less than $100 each. And Excel isn't a piece of shit on it.
- mathverse 3y agoIt's a price for a one of a kind portable device. I used to think like you but then I realized Ill be better of just accepting the price or suffering with an inferior windows device.
- baz00 3y agoI've got an M1 Pro MBP, studio display, ipad pro, apple watch, iphone. Meh. IT cost a lot and makes you feel special. That is all. It's not objectively better at achieving your goals. At this point I don't agree that windows is inferior. It is just different. And quite frankly from a developer and productivity perspective it's actually a lot better.
- 3y ago
- rjh29 3y agoOr ~£1000 for a Ryzen 7 32GB 2TB T14s Gen 3 if you buy your own SSD (saving £200+) and drop Windows (~£80).
- baz00 3y agoNo thanks. I had a Ryzen T495s. Nothing but aggro that thing. I religiously avoid AMD because in the last decade I've had nothing but trouble from all of their hardware. Intel and NVidia only these days. I've got an i5-1235U T14 gen 3 which I paid £730 for (new, but damaged box) and stuffed another 8Gb stick and a 1TB WD SSD in it. That is fine for my personal use as it's mostly an Office and light code machine.
- rjh29 3y agoUp until the most recent Intel gen, Ryzen has been the clear leader in both battery life and integrated graphics, blowing Intel away. Pretty much any internet forum will advise you to buy AMD for the T series.
- baz00 3y agoDon't need integrated graphics. Battery is not that important to me. Reliability is.
- saltcured 3y agoThis caught my interest. What problems have you had? I had a T495 and was happy with it running Fedora. So much so, just ordered the latest P14s ryzen model as its replacement. The T495 developed a fan problem just recently, but since it is out of warranty it was easier to get my employer to order a new machine than to figure out how to repair it. If it were my personal machine, I probably would have searched for parts and tried to repair it myself and keep using it... Edit to add: I am in your mirror universe because it was bad experiences with Intel + NVIDIA in Thinkpads which motivated me to want to try AMD again. I don't mind pure Intel iGPU models, but find the combination nothing but trouble.
- 3y ago
- teekert 3y agoThe sad thing is that we all know this. Normies buy the cheap version and you have to explain to them: Yes, it gets slower quick, it's shit, you shouldn't have bought it, no you can't upgrade anymore. Then they feel bad.
- znpy 3y agoah, yes, that's truer than it seems. it's literally a bait on non-technical people. but then again, you don't get to 1+ trillion valuation just like that...
- baz00 3y agoNailed it.
- lotsofpulp 3y agoA “normie” would only need an M1 MacBook Air and that will be good for 10 years. I am using a 2015 MacBook Air, and since I only browse/do basic spreadsheet stuff/pdf things, it still works fine. If you need anything more than a Macbook Air, you are not a “normie”, and should be capable of doing better research before you buy.
- baz00 3y agoUnlikely. My daughter is a normie and hit a wall with the basic M1 Air.
- lotsofpulp 3y agoDoing what?
- baz00 3y agoUniversity work. Pretty much what apple promote it for.
- dottjt 3y agoWhen it comes down to it, I think you'll find most people buy Mac for the software. I've tried using Windows and Linux and it's just not as good. If this weren't the case, then I doubt Apple could charge such exorbitant prices for their hardware.
- baz00 3y agoI'm not sure why you'd go for a Mac for the software? The cloud experience sucks and is really really expensive, most of the provided desktop apps are buggity or so disparate to the rest of the universe that they are a disability and everything is pretty portable. I mean here I am all VSCode + Linux (WSL2) + Office 365 + Adobe + Davinci Resolve + mathematical tools (SciPy/Maxima/Minitab) here. All are portable (apart from Minitab)
- dottjt 3y agoOne such example is music production. Audio on Mac just works. You can plug in a microphone from 20 years ago and it will just work. With Windows this is not the case. You need appropriate drivers, often which are not available. This is not including all the issues with audio routing etc. I will agree that native cloud sucks on Mac. I would disagree about the desktop apps, I think they are superior to Windows. Programming is also superior on Mac, in my opinion. Personally speaking, the big thing I hate most about Windows are the defaults. Like, the default keyboard shortcuts i.e. using F keys in opinion, is very poor design. Also the lack of an additional modifier key makes Windows less ideal from this point of view. Of course, each OS has their pros and cons. Windows just doesn't work for me.
- znpy 3y ago> I paid £1899 for my M1 Pro. The M2 Pro was £2149. The M3 Pro is £1899 again for same spec. How do you think Apple has become a 1+ trillions company?
- eddie_catflap 3y agoAs ever when new models come out I fully spec'd one out on the UK store. 128GB M3 Max, 8TB SSD. £6999 14", £7299 16". Ouch
- bengale 3y ago> I paid £1899 for my M1 Pro. The M2 Pro was £2149. The M3 Pro is £1899 again for same spec. Just take a look at the last several years of GBP/USD. Our currency was in the crapper for a while and that impacted prices.
- baz00 3y agoI fucked up. The spec is worse.
- theodric 3y agoI got (for my wife) an entire Framework Ryzen 7840U system, plus a 2TB SSD and 32GB RAM purchased separately, for THE UPGRADE COST on an M2-class MacBook between its base spec and 32GB RAM/2TB SSD. It's a farce. I don't want to leave the Apple/OSX ecosystem after 20 years, but I simply can't justify it any longer. I bought a €300 used ThinkPad. Fedora's pretty good these days, and I'm mostly in a terminal or Firefox. I'll live. Wife's been mostly running Windows on Macs since 2011 anyway.
- achandlerwhite 3y agoto be fair that upgrade price also includes a jump from m2 to m2 pro and the improved design with better screen
- oezi 3y agoIt is a major failure of them not to put pressure on everyone else by doubling memory. The LLM models would massively benefit. They could buy 32GB for probably less than 100 USD as a manufacturer.
- brailsafe 3y agoI generally disagree with arbitrary hardware comparisons, like "why buy apple when I could build some gaming rig for $5" for obvious reasons that have been beat to death in every comment section ever, but you're very right about the hardware upgrades specifically. I want a new mac, but I feel like an idiot paying those prices for both ram and ssd upgrades, moreso than ever before. In CAD, at one point, ram upgrades were already too much at $200 or something, but I'd reluctantly suck it up and be happy with the decision anyway. Now they're literally $500 for each 16gb increment, and $500 for each TB increment. I'm not about to replace my existing mac with some Windows hunk of garbage, but I'll have to wait until I'm either rich or I can directly translate those upgrades into predictable dollar amount returns on the investments. It's bizarre that I price out a laptop that's $5k before tax that doesn't have more than a 512gb SSD, has only half the possible RAM, and doesn't even have the largest screen. On the other hand, the mid-tier option is probably still great, but costs about $3500 and also still only has a 512gb ssd
- ulfw 3y agoWhy do you compare a self-built desktop PC with a Mac notebook? I fail to see anything they have in common.