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From their website: "Are you interested in Licensing this technology...?" It's bugs me they can get a patent on a shape with features that you or I could desig

From their website: "Are you interested in Licensing this technology...?" It's bugs me they can get a patent on a shape with features that you or I could design in a couple nights. I thought the whole reason the world didn't already adopt better screw heads than blasted Phillips (like Robertson, or square bits for those who aren't familiar) is that licensing arrangements weren't economical.

stop50 3y ago
I personally think that torx should be used more often(the star shape).
- c4mpute 3y ago
  Agreed. Torx might not be ideal, but it is widespread and (relatively) cheap. And miles better than anything else that is widespread and cheap.
- archi42 3y ago
  The local hardware stores' own brands offer a wide range of cheap, torx-compatible screws. I think this started not too long ago (but can't say for sure, probably 2019 when the latest torx patent expired?), and they still offer screws with the normal cross shape. Both are of the same, decent quality. I only buy the torx/star variants, since they're just superior.
- Workaccount2 3y ago
  Regular people cannot handle using torx. Philips is nice because (untrained) people naturally will over-tighten the fuck out of every screw they encounter. Philips cams out and prevents them from going too far overboard. In fact its literal design goal was to make a screw that is hard to over-tighten. I know if we used torx on some of our products, we'd spent 10000% more time on removing snapped screw bodies.
  - BobaFloutist 3y ago
    It's me, I'm untrained people. Is there a decent convention for how much a screw should be tightened, or is it fully case-by-case?
    - Workaccount2 3y ago
      There are torque specs and torque wrenches to solve this problem in manufacturing. For day to day, 95% of the time you can tighten a screw gently until it stops, its head fully against the surface, then just "snug it up" a bit to seat it. "Snug it up" is of course vague, so refer back to line 1.
- MisterTea 3y ago
  Square Robertson screws are my go to. My father had a wood shop and used them for production as they were nearly impossible to strip and the screw holds tight into the slightly tapered driver. So I grew up using them for various projects as we had boxes of them. You can easily one hand a 3-4 inch #10 deck screw. Those crappy Torx things they sell don't compare.
whatshisface 3y ago
If we are playing pin the plan on the happenstance I guess the profit from the patent could pay for the sales work necessary to turn a random shape into a standard anyone uses.
johnwalkr 3y ago
You or I could not "design it in a couple nights". For a one-off part with no particular requirements, sure, although it's a lot of work just to manufacture and test once for a critical application. And there is no point to design such a thing except for a critical application with some unique requirements. But to make a new standard, mass-produced fastener to replace an existing one and make sure it's manufacturable, make sure its actually better than something like Torx and is worth making for your niche customers, make sure you've got the dimensions correct for all different sizes, then make prototypes and test them it could easily be person-years of work. That being said, pozi-driv and JIS "+" style screws are far superior to philips and readily available. Even in Europe half the time you see a "+" it's philips and it's kind of impossible now have everyone know the difference and to deprecate philips even though they do usually have markings.[1] [1]https://rtstools.com/jis-vs-phillips-screwdrivers-and-where-to-buy-a-jis-screwdriver/ https://rtstools.com/jis-vs-phillips-screwdrivers-and-where-...

stop50 3y ago

I personally think that torx should be used more often(the star shape).

c4mpute 3y ago
Agreed. Torx might not be ideal, but it is widespread and (relatively) cheap. And miles better than anything else that is widespread and cheap.
archi42 3y ago
The local hardware stores' own brands offer a wide range of cheap, torx-compatible screws. I think this started not too long ago (but can't say for sure, probably 2019 when the latest torx patent expired?), and they still offer screws with the normal cross shape. Both are of the same, decent quality. I only buy the torx/star variants, since they're just superior.
Workaccount2 3y ago
Regular people cannot handle using torx. Philips is nice because (untrained) people naturally will over-tighten the fuck out of every screw they encounter. Philips cams out and prevents them from going too far overboard. In fact its literal design goal was to make a screw that is hard to over-tighten. I know if we used torx on some of our products, we'd spent 10000% more time on removing snapped screw bodies.
- BobaFloutist 3y ago
  It's me, I'm untrained people. Is there a decent convention for how much a screw should be tightened, or is it fully case-by-case?
  - Workaccount2 3y ago
    There are torque specs and torque wrenches to solve this problem in manufacturing. For day to day, 95% of the time you can tighten a screw gently until it stops, its head fully against the surface, then just "snug it up" a bit to seat it. "Snug it up" is of course vague, so refer back to line 1.
MisterTea 3y ago
Square Robertson screws are my go to. My father had a wood shop and used them for production as they were nearly impossible to strip and the screw holds tight into the slightly tapered driver. So I grew up using them for various projects as we had boxes of them. You can easily one hand a 3-4 inch #10 deck screw. Those crappy Torx things they sell don't compare.

whatshisface 3y ago

If we are playing pin the plan on the happenstance I guess the profit from the patent could pay for the sales work necessary to turn a random shape into a standard anyone uses.

johnwalkr 3y ago

You or I could not "design it in a couple nights". For a one-off part with no particular requirements, sure, although it's a lot of work just to manufacture and test once for a critical application. And there is no point to design such a thing except for a critical application with some unique requirements. But to make a new standard, mass-produced fastener to replace an existing one and make sure it's manufacturable, make sure its actually better than something like Torx and is worth making for your niche customers, make sure you've got the dimensions correct for all different sizes, then make prototypes and test them it could easily be person-years of work. That being said, pozi-driv and JIS "+" style screws are far superior to philips and readily available. Even in Europe half the time you see a "+" it's philips and it's kind of impossible now have everyone know the difference and to deprecate philips even though they do usually have markings.[1] [1]https://rtstools.com/jis-vs-phillips-screwdrivers-and-where-to-buy-a-jis-screwdriver/ https://rtstools.com/jis-vs-phillips-screwdrivers-and-where-...