3 ms·

That was (and may still be) the next step. Why isn't this a good idea also?

benologist 15y ago
Some of your claims are pretty flakey, it's obvious they set out to replicate what you do but judging by those screenshots most of what they did is just similar - I hope your takedown notice exclusively specified the direct infringement.
- galenward 15y ago
  Most of the design elements that are different we changed between October and December or between December and now. You can't copy code and tweak some stuff and call it your own.
sp332 15y ago
Since Amazon is hosting the content, they could be held liable for ALL cases of copyright infringement on their servers. In order to avoid this, the DMCA has a provision that, if you respond to takedown requests, you get "safe harbor" and your customer, who actually did the infringing using your service is now liable. That basically means that Amazon can't appeal the takedown request. They must take down the content before appealing, or they expose themselves to tons of liability. I don't think this system of scaring hosting sites into being content owners' personal executioners is a good idea. Specifically, there is no judicial oversight, no evidence required, no actual law enforcement agencies involved, etc.
- brazzy 15y ago
  I'd assume, however, that a falsely requested (and implemented) takedown would expose the requester to be sued for damages.
- elehack 15y ago
  That's why DMCA takedown notices must be filed with an assertion, under penalty of perjury, that the request is legit (requestor is authorized to issue it, it is an infringement, etc). Not perfect, but it does make a pretty big disincentive to being caught issuing fraudulent takedown notices.
  - gue5t 15y ago
    Doesn't the evidence that fraudulent takedown notices are still issued, even in bulk and via automated systems clearly indicate this isn't a significant enough disincentive? For example, according to <http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090315/2033134126.shtml> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090315/2033134126.shtml&#..., Google has stated that 37% of the takedown requests they receive are fraudulent. edit: Why does Hacker News not support <scheme://path> (with brackets) syntax? It's nothing new.
    - sp332 15y ago
      Anything starting with "http:// http:// " will be turned into a hyperlink. You don't need the "<>".
  - Natsu 15y ago
    > Not perfect, but it does make a pretty big disincentive to being caught issuing fraudulent takedown notices. In theory, perhaps, but in practice I can find many false notices. The EFF even keeps a "Wall of Shame" with the worst notices: https://www.eff.org/takedowns https://www.eff.org/takedowns A tiny number have gone to court, but even then, damages are rare. Diebold is the only company I can find that has paid significant damages for false claims. While several courts have made rulings of bad faith, I was unable to find even one perjury conviction over a false DMCA notice.
  - dangrossman 15y ago
    Actually, the DMCA doesn't say that. Many people have been misled because some of the popular "copy and paste" form letters for sending the notices include a different statement than is actually required. Here's the actual text of the DMCA (HR 2281) [1]: > A statement that the information in the notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed You are only swearing, under penalty of perjury, that you're the owner of the copyright or authorized to act on behalf of an owner of the copyright. You are not swearing that you believe an infringement has occurred, or to anything else in your notice. Thus even if you know the other party is not infringing your copyright, you are not committing perjury by attesting that they are infringing to a service provider. I don't know if there are other consequences of false takedown notices, but the swear under penalty of perjury doesn't actually exist. 1: http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/hr2281.pdf http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/hr2281.pdf

Some of your claims are pretty flakey, it's obvious they set out to replicate what you do but judging by those screenshots most of what they did is just similar - I hope your takedown notice exclusively specified the direct infringement.

galenward 15y ago
Most of the design elements that are different we changed between October and December or between December and now. You can't copy code and tweak some stuff and call it your own.

sp332 15y ago

Since Amazon is hosting the content, they could be held liable for ALL cases of copyright infringement on their servers. In order to avoid this, the DMCA has a provision that, if you respond to takedown requests, you get "safe harbor" and your customer, who actually did the infringing using your service is now liable. That basically means that Amazon can't appeal the takedown request. They must take down the content before appealing, or they expose themselves to tons of liability. I don't think this system of scaring hosting sites into being content owners' personal executioners is a good idea. Specifically, there is no judicial oversight, no evidence required, no actual law enforcement agencies involved, etc.

brazzy 15y ago
I'd assume, however, that a falsely requested (and implemented) takedown would expose the requester to be sued for damages.
elehack 15y ago
That's why DMCA takedown notices must be filed with an assertion, under penalty of perjury, that the request is legit (requestor is authorized to issue it, it is an infringement, etc). Not perfect, but it does make a pretty big disincentive to being caught issuing fraudulent takedown notices.
- gue5t 15y ago
  Doesn't the evidence that fraudulent takedown notices are still issued, even in bulk and via automated systems clearly indicate this isn't a significant enough disincentive? For example, according to <http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090315/2033134126.shtml> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090315/2033134126.shtml&#..., Google has stated that 37% of the takedown requests they receive are fraudulent. edit: Why does Hacker News not support <scheme://path> (with brackets) syntax? It's nothing new.
  - sp332 15y ago
    Anything starting with "http:// http:// " will be turned into a hyperlink. You don't need the "<>".
- Natsu 15y ago
  > Not perfect, but it does make a pretty big disincentive to being caught issuing fraudulent takedown notices. In theory, perhaps, but in practice I can find many false notices. The EFF even keeps a "Wall of Shame" with the worst notices: https://www.eff.org/takedowns https://www.eff.org/takedowns A tiny number have gone to court, but even then, damages are rare. Diebold is the only company I can find that has paid significant damages for false claims. While several courts have made rulings of bad faith, I was unable to find even one perjury conviction over a false DMCA notice.
- dangrossman 15y ago
  Actually, the DMCA doesn't say that. Many people have been misled because some of the popular "copy and paste" form letters for sending the notices include a different statement than is actually required. Here's the actual text of the DMCA (HR 2281) [1]: > A statement that the information in the notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed You are only swearing, under penalty of perjury, that you're the owner of the copyright or authorized to act on behalf of an owner of the copyright. You are not swearing that you believe an infringement has occurred, or to anything else in your notice. Thus even if you know the other party is not infringing your copyright, you are not committing perjury by attesting that they are infringing to a service provider. I don't know if there are other consequences of false takedown notices, but the swear under penalty of perjury doesn't actually exist. 1: http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/hr2281.pdf http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/hr2281.pdf