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Yes, I served in the Marine Corps after joining at 23. It was shocking how little freedom enlisted folks have, even after basic training and technical schools.

Yes, I served in the Marine Corps after joining at 23. It was shocking how little freedom enlisted folks have, even after basic training and technical schools. I had lived on my own since I was a teenager, and all that independence was stripped away for the entire enlistment. Not even for any particularly good or useful reason, just so officers wouldn’t look bad if someone got in trouble. I could not even fathom making that choice now at 38. That would be insane. You might as well volunteer to go to prison. Again, there’s not even a hypothetical benefit to completely stripping freedom away from grown men. It just makes no sense—-intelligent people won’t serve if they have to put up with that nonsense.

wutwutwat 3y ago
As I understand it, enlisting gives up many rights, because "you become government property" or so I've heard people claim. I have always assumed enlisting would be like what you described, just based on what we see in movies. I think anyone who enlists expecting to be able do whatever they please is pretty blind to the overwhelming amounts of data everywhere growing up saying otherwise. It's also in the contract you sign. Who would sign a contract with the military and expect civilian freedom and autonomy? That's just ignorant imo. With that said, I also know many people who served and they had plenty of freedom and downtime, it's just the bounds of the "freedom box" are much tighter while serving, naturally. There's still plenty of time for folks to screw around, live it up, and get into trouble, during peacetime at least.
- psunavy03 3y ago
  Being subject to the UCMJ does limit some of your rights, mainly free speech in that you can't use contemptuous language against your superiors or against certain people in the government. And, of course, you have to be where you're supposed to be when you're supposed to be there, or else you're in varying degrees of trouble from "oops, I'm getting yelled at for being late" to "I'm being court-martialed for desertion." But the "your body becomes official government property" canard doesn't belong anywhere off a middle school schoolyard. It's nonsense.
  - jstarfish 3y ago
    > But the "your body becomes official government property" canard doesn't belong anywhere off a middle school schoolyard. It's nonsense. Stop-loss programs can bite you in the ass, just when you thought you were free. At 18, most don't read the contract as well as they should.
    - psunavy03 3y ago
      Stop-loss has not been a thing in years. What's more, not reading the contract is no excuse. The contract is what it is. Enlisted members sign up for an 8-year enlistment with the balance of their time in the inactive reserve, where they are still eligible for callup. Officers serve at the pleasure of the President, which in practice means until you resign after fulfilling any Academy/ROTC/flight school obligation. My point wasn't the government being able to fulfill the contract, it was the childish "government property" meme that goes around with things like "yeah, brah, if you self-harm they can prosecute you for damaging government property!" Which, no, they can't. Servicemembers aren't chattel slaves.

wutwutwat 3y ago

As I understand it, enlisting gives up many rights, because "you become government property" or so I've heard people claim. I have always assumed enlisting would be like what you described, just based on what we see in movies. I think anyone who enlists expecting to be able do whatever they please is pretty blind to the overwhelming amounts of data everywhere growing up saying otherwise. It's also in the contract you sign. Who would sign a contract with the military and expect civilian freedom and autonomy? That's just ignorant imo. With that said, I also know many people who served and they had plenty of freedom and downtime, it's just the bounds of the "freedom box" are much tighter while serving, naturally. There's still plenty of time for folks to screw around, live it up, and get into trouble, during peacetime at least.

psunavy03 3y ago
Being subject to the UCMJ does limit some of your rights, mainly free speech in that you can't use contemptuous language against your superiors or against certain people in the government. And, of course, you have to be where you're supposed to be when you're supposed to be there, or else you're in varying degrees of trouble from "oops, I'm getting yelled at for being late" to "I'm being court-martialed for desertion." But the "your body becomes official government property" canard doesn't belong anywhere off a middle school schoolyard. It's nonsense.
- jstarfish 3y ago
  > But the "your body becomes official government property" canard doesn't belong anywhere off a middle school schoolyard. It's nonsense. Stop-loss programs can bite you in the ass, just when you thought you were free. At 18, most don't read the contract as well as they should.
  - psunavy03 3y ago
    Stop-loss has not been a thing in years. What's more, not reading the contract is no excuse. The contract is what it is. Enlisted members sign up for an 8-year enlistment with the balance of their time in the inactive reserve, where they are still eligible for callup. Officers serve at the pleasure of the President, which in practice means until you resign after fulfilling any Academy/ROTC/flight school obligation. My point wasn't the government being able to fulfill the contract, it was the childish "government property" meme that goes around with things like "yeah, brah, if you self-harm they can prosecute you for damaging government property!" Which, no, they can't. Servicemembers aren't chattel slaves.