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I'm wondering now if Apple tracks this sort of stuff in their released machines. I know my iPad always asks me if I want to send stats to Apple (and I always sa

I'm wondering now if Apple tracks this sort of stuff in their released machines. I know my iPad always asks me if I want to send stats to Apple (and I always say no). So let's say that enough people do, then do they have a good idea of how often all the performance cores are used? Max memory B/W consumed? Stuff like that. Back when I was at Intel there were always interesting tradeoffs between available silicon/thermal/margin resource and what made it into the chip. Of course Intel didn't have any way (at that time) to collect statistics so it was always "... but I think we should ..." not a lot of data.

threeseed 3y ago
Apple shares anonymous usage data by default on all their operating systems and users are asked again on every major update. Given that there has never been any public incidents about it and what we know about similar defaults I would be surprised if Apple is getting less than 95% opt-in rate. But I suspect at high-end they only really care about the performance of a few dozen professional apps e.g. Logic or Final Cut. And at the low-end it's likely just efficiency.
- rickdeckard 3y ago
  > Given that there has never been any public incidents about it and what we know about similar defaults I would be surprised if Apple is getting less than 95% opt-in rate. A 95% opt-in rate is INSANELY high for any type of usage-stat opt-in, everything above 50% is usually outstanding. What is known about "similar defaults"?
  - yipbub 3y ago
    It seems like the comment above is describing out-out and the it pesters you to opt-back in if you opt-out.
    - ballenf 3y ago
      That's not how it works. You get asked the question again on every update, regardless of what you chose the last time. So there are people who were opted-in that change their minds. My friends and family opt-in rate is <50%. And most of them are non-technical.
      - 55555 3y ago
        It honestly doesn’t matter. We’re talking about hundreds of millions of devices sending data in either case. A hundred million more provides no additional value.
        brookst 3y ago
        ...unless there's a correlation between opt-in choice and usage patterns.
        DwnVoteHoneyPot 3y ago
        That’s the trade off. You don’t opt-in, then you don’t get customized stuff. Shouldn’t be surprised if Apple doesn’t optimize for your usage.
    - dmix 3y ago
      Major updates are infrequent maybe once a year if you always update, it’s not pestering you. And the UI makes it very easy to skip unlike some designs.
      - plussed_reader 3y ago
        Unless there is a flurry of network vulnerability updates, then a bespoke fork is set in the road for them.
        dmix 3y ago
        Security/minor updates don't prompt for this AFAIK
  - 3c6bYDXLMj 3y ago
    It’s a step in a setup wizard. Whilst it’s explicitly asked, and far from dark pattern territory, it’s designed in such a way that I wouldn’t be surprised by a 95% opt-in rate.
    - rickdeckard 3y ago
      I would be VERY surprised. To someone with experience in that area of UX, a 95% opt-IN rate is ridiculously high. A 95% consent-rate would already be hard to achieve as opt-OUT. For opt-in a 95% rate would require both attention AND consent from 95% of the audience at this stage in the setup wizard. I highly doubt that it can achieve 95% attention, let alone 95% consent.
      - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
        But it's not quite opt in our opt out in this case. The user is required to opt for something. Apple literally has 100% attention, because otherwise the user can't move past the screen.
        marpstar 3y ago
        To add to this, it's not like a mailing list, either. Marketing opt-in is lower because it's annoying. A lot of people don't want emails. Anonymized stats from your machine? Most normal people (who don't use computers like we do) do not care and just click the most affirmative option so that they can move forward.
        IggleSniggle 3y ago
        I think that was kind of the OP point. "Pro" users are significantly more likely to be opt-out in this scenario, unless they are not Pro users but just want the Pro machine for conspicuous consumption, making a much more dramatic swing in the usage data that is collected.
        GenerocUsername 3y ago
  - squokko 3y ago
    Apple enjoys a level of consumer trust that essentially no other technology business, and almost no other business at all. Whether that's justified or not is a matter of opinion.
- aatd86 3y ago
  Wait telemetry is opt-out? And I've never heard people complain? Genuinely surprised as it seems to be quite a commonly controversial thing amongst devs.
  - benterix 3y ago
    Well, Apple generally has so much info about your every step people stopped caring a long time ago.
    - Ensorceled 3y ago
      I think you are talking about Google, not Apple.
      - schizm 3y ago
        No, both of them actually. Don't trust them too much. This calls out some soft spots that were exposed during the Hong Kong riots: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ9LR8homt4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ9LR8homt4
        kergonath 3y ago
        Not the OP, but I am not watching a random YouTube video from a random guy to help you prove your point. I can confidently link you some of these that “prove” that the Earth is flat.
  - The_Colonel 3y ago
    Yeah, that's kind of surprising, given that Apple is often hailed as a privacy champion.
    - Ensorceled 3y ago
      It’s not really opt-out or opt-in: it’s an explicit, informed choice you have to make when you start up your Mac after first purchase or major upgrade.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  It's not a default because users must choose yes or no. So there basically is no default.
gosub100 3y ago
> asks me if I want to send stats to Apple (and I always say no) so you like them enough to pay them thousands for the premium product, but not enough to tell them how much CPU you use?
- cowsup 3y ago
  I have no idea what information they’re collecting on me, and it seems very few people do (given that nobody was able to answer the above question). Could be “how much CPU does this user use?” but could also be “when prompted with a notification that a user’s iCloud backup storage is low, how long did they hesitate on the prompt before dismissing? How can we increase their odds of upgrading?” Also, my willingness to provide information does not correlate to how much I “like” a company’s products. If I buy a sandwich from a deli, and they ask for my email for their newsletter or something, I won’t give it. That doesn’t mean I don’t like their company or their sandwich. Could be the best sandwich in the world, they don’t need my email.

threeseed 3y ago

Apple shares anonymous usage data by default on all their operating systems and users are asked again on every major update. Given that there has never been any public incidents about it and what we know about similar defaults I would be surprised if Apple is getting less than 95% opt-in rate. But I suspect at high-end they only really care about the performance of a few dozen professional apps e.g. Logic or Final Cut. And at the low-end it's likely just efficiency.

rickdeckard 3y ago
> Given that there has never been any public incidents about it and what we know about similar defaults I would be surprised if Apple is getting less than 95% opt-in rate. A 95% opt-in rate is INSANELY high for any type of usage-stat opt-in, everything above 50% is usually outstanding. What is known about "similar defaults"?
- yipbub 3y ago
  It seems like the comment above is describing out-out and the it pesters you to opt-back in if you opt-out.
  - ballenf 3y ago
    That's not how it works. You get asked the question again on every update, regardless of what you chose the last time. So there are people who were opted-in that change their minds. My friends and family opt-in rate is <50%. And most of them are non-technical.
    - 55555 3y ago
      It honestly doesn’t matter. We’re talking about hundreds of millions of devices sending data in either case. A hundred million more provides no additional value.
      - brookst 3y ago
        ...unless there's a correlation between opt-in choice and usage patterns.
        DwnVoteHoneyPot 3y ago
        That’s the trade off. You don’t opt-in, then you don’t get customized stuff. Shouldn’t be surprised if Apple doesn’t optimize for your usage.
  - dmix 3y ago
    Major updates are infrequent maybe once a year if you always update, it’s not pestering you. And the UI makes it very easy to skip unlike some designs.
    - plussed_reader 3y ago
      Unless there is a flurry of network vulnerability updates, then a bespoke fork is set in the road for them.
      - dmix 3y ago
        Security/minor updates don't prompt for this AFAIK
- 3c6bYDXLMj 3y ago
  It’s a step in a setup wizard. Whilst it’s explicitly asked, and far from dark pattern territory, it’s designed in such a way that I wouldn’t be surprised by a 95% opt-in rate.
  - rickdeckard 3y ago
    I would be VERY surprised. To someone with experience in that area of UX, a 95% opt-IN rate is ridiculously high. A 95% consent-rate would already be hard to achieve as opt-OUT. For opt-in a 95% rate would require both attention AND consent from 95% of the audience at this stage in the setup wizard. I highly doubt that it can achieve 95% attention, let alone 95% consent.
    - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
      But it's not quite opt in our opt out in this case. The user is required to opt for something. Apple literally has 100% attention, because otherwise the user can't move past the screen.
      - marpstar 3y ago
        To add to this, it's not like a mailing list, either. Marketing opt-in is lower because it's annoying. A lot of people don't want emails. Anonymized stats from your machine? Most normal people (who don't use computers like we do) do not care and just click the most affirmative option so that they can move forward.
        IggleSniggle 3y ago
        I think that was kind of the OP point. "Pro" users are significantly more likely to be opt-out in this scenario, unless they are not Pro users but just want the Pro machine for conspicuous consumption, making a much more dramatic swing in the usage data that is collected.
        GenerocUsername 3y ago
- squokko 3y ago
  Apple enjoys a level of consumer trust that essentially no other technology business, and almost no other business at all. Whether that's justified or not is a matter of opinion.
aatd86 3y ago
Wait telemetry is opt-out? And I've never heard people complain? Genuinely surprised as it seems to be quite a commonly controversial thing amongst devs.
- benterix 3y ago
  Well, Apple generally has so much info about your every step people stopped caring a long time ago.
  - Ensorceled 3y ago
    I think you are talking about Google, not Apple.
    - schizm 3y ago
      No, both of them actually. Don't trust them too much. This calls out some soft spots that were exposed during the Hong Kong riots: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ9LR8homt4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ9LR8homt4
      - kergonath 3y ago
        Not the OP, but I am not watching a random YouTube video from a random guy to help you prove your point. I can confidently link you some of these that “prove” that the Earth is flat.
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  Yeah, that's kind of surprising, given that Apple is often hailed as a privacy champion.
  - Ensorceled 3y ago
    It’s not really opt-out or opt-in: it’s an explicit, informed choice you have to make when you start up your Mac after first purchase or major upgrade.
wkat4242 3y ago
It's not a default because users must choose yes or no. So there basically is no default.

gosub100 3y ago

> asks me if I want to send stats to Apple (and I always say no) so you like them enough to pay them thousands for the premium product, but not enough to tell them how much CPU you use?

cowsup 3y ago
I have no idea what information they’re collecting on me, and it seems very few people do (given that nobody was able to answer the above question). Could be “how much CPU does this user use?” but could also be “when prompted with a notification that a user’s iCloud backup storage is low, how long did they hesitate on the prompt before dismissing? How can we increase their odds of upgrading?” Also, my willingness to provide information does not correlate to how much I “like” a company’s products. If I buy a sandwich from a deli, and they ask for my email for their newsletter or something, I won’t give it. That doesn’t mean I don’t like their company or their sandwich. Could be the best sandwich in the world, they don’t need my email.