5 ms·

It is an honest question. For some background in my thinking, it is because today's announcement really focused on Intel users. My semi-educated guess is that

It is an honest question. For some background in my thinking, it is because today's announcement really focused on Intel users. My semi-educated guess is that Apple did a whole bunch of user studies and realized there are a lot of people out there, like the OP, who haven't upgraded yet, hence the focus. As a result, I'm genuinely curious why this person hasn't upgraded. And for my own personal experience, the upgrade/switch from intel to m*, is night and day better ergonomics as a developer. It isn't just some shiny new toy or a waste in cash. For the same reason professional mechanics in F1 don't use shitty tools to work on their cars. Or tour de france racers aren't using 30lbs Huffy bikes. TLDR: I don't give a f'ck if you don't happen to upgrade, that's your choice. I'm just curious about why.

paulryanrogers 3y ago
This isn't Huffy bikes vs F1 racers. Unless your workload is heavily CPU bound. And even then it's probably more like a 20yo F1 car vs a new one. We also live on a finite planet. And then energy savings for many desk jockeys is unlikely to be worth it for a few decades more, if one considers the literal tons of material and energy in manufacturing.
- latchkey 3y ago
  That's totally not my experience at all.
- rewmie 3y ago
  > And even then it's probably more like a 20yo F1 car vs a new one. This thread is literally about the decision to buy an M3-based MacBook Pro to replace M2/M1/Intel MacBook Pros. We're talking about hardware launched in the past 4/3/2/1 years. That's hardly "20yo" anything. Also, you failed to provide any concrete, objective reason to buy a M3. None at all. Is it that hard to put together any argument to justify the move?
  - paulryanrogers 3y ago
    > That's hardly "20yo" anything. My car comparison was trying to propose an alternative metaphor since comparing a top-of-the-line racing car to a child's bicycle struck me as absurdly out of proportion. Cars are generally maintained and kept in service longer than computers, so I picked 20y out of thin air. > Also, you failed to provide any concrete, objective reason to buy a M3. None at all. Is it that hard to put together any argument to justify the move? My point is for most people there is no justification to move. Unless one has a device beyond repair, so old its software cannot be kept up-to-date, or the very rare need for the latest performance then stick with what you have.
threeseed 3y ago
> My semi-educated guess is that Apple did a whole bunch of user studies and realized there are a lot of people out there Apple has telemetry from macOS. So they knew exactly what percentage of users are still on Intel Macs. And it's low-hanging fruit to go after them then try and convince existing Windows users.
- latchkey 3y ago
  Telemetry doesn't answer the important "why" question.
JohnBooty 3y ago
For the same reason professional mechanics in F1 don't use shitty tools to work on their cars. They also probably don't buy new wrenches every time new wrenches are released, if their current wrenches are completely sufficient and not holding them back in any way.
- latchkey 3y ago
  > if their current wrenches are completely sufficient That's a fantastically entirely subjective opinion.
  - rewmie 3y ago
    > That's a fantastically entirely subjective opinion. That's the point: objectively, there is absolutely no concrete reason that justifies replacing a MacBook bought in the past 3 or 4 years with the M3 ones. None at all. In fact, it boggles the mind how anyone could justify replacing any MacBook pro with a M3 one by claiming "pros don't use shitty tools", as if MacBook Pros packing an Intel core 7/M1/M2 suddenly became shitty laptops just because Apple released a new one.
    - georgespencer 3y ago
      > That's the point: objectively, there is absolutely no concrete reason that justifies replacing a MacBook bought in the past 3 or 4 years with the M3 ones. None at all. Again, what you mean to say is that _you_ cannot think of a reason that would make _you_ upgrade from a 4 year old MacBook to a new M3 one. > objectively Do you understand that what you say is literally, definitionally, subjective? It's one thing to make primitive and clumsy generalisations, but quite another to be confusing subjectivity and objectivity. > it boggles the mind Starting to believe there isn't a lot of mind to boggle here… > how anyone could justify replacing any MacBook pro with a M3 one by claiming "pros don't use shitty tools" I haven't noticed anyone making this argument, but I know many people who upgrade their tools -- whether computers or otherwise -- to the latest and greatest whenever they can, because working faster and more efficiently is a concrete benefit, and it really would take an inestimable moron to, say, argue that late Intel-era MacBooks can do the same things that M-series MacBooks can.
andrewprock 3y ago
The honest reason is that there is no practical reason to upgrade. The computer works, and despite the various FUD you might read, the attack surface for external attacks is quite small for personal computers. That said, if anyone would like to send me $4000, I will absolutely upgrade to a new 14" Macbook in a heartbeat.
coin 3y ago
> better ergonomics The newer 16 inch MacBook Pros are half a pound heavier than the Intel one.
- latchkey 3y ago
  I'm weird, I sit on the floor on a cushion with my back against a wall. I have a folding table over my lap that the laptop sits on. The keyboard actually works unlike my old Intel ones with the crappy butterfly. I hardly travel these days, but throwing it in a backpack isn't the end of the world. That said, I was actually thinking ergonomics in terms of performance of development. The thing is so fast that commands complete faster than I can deal with them. My IDE can keep up with me. I can run a ton of apps and it doesn't slow down or glitch. It doesn't get nearly as hot and there is rarely fan noise. The screen is higher quality. The speakers sound better. Magsafe is back! The button for my fingerprint works very well. No more stupid touch bar. Function keys! I could keep going...
VancouverMan 3y ago
I've been holding off on upgrading some older Intel Mac minis I have while waiting for the memory situation to improve, but so far it hasn't. Ideally, I'd consolidate these older systems into one new Mac mini, or even a Mac Studio. I'd like at least 64 GB of memory, at a reasonable price. The latest Mac mini maxes out at only 32 GB of RAM, if I'm remembering it right. I think the latest low-end Mac Studio could be upgraded to 64 GB of memory, but the last time I priced it, this upgrade cost more than I'd been expecting. It also put the overall cost above what I'd prefer to pay. While I'd like to keep using a Mac, it's looking more and more like I'd be better off just building a PC, where I could likely get comparable enough processing performance, but far more memory (and storage) at a lower cost.

paulryanrogers 3y ago

This isn't Huffy bikes vs F1 racers. Unless your workload is heavily CPU bound. And even then it's probably more like a 20yo F1 car vs a new one. We also live on a finite planet. And then energy savings for many desk jockeys is unlikely to be worth it for a few decades more, if one considers the literal tons of material and energy in manufacturing.

latchkey 3y ago
That's totally not my experience at all.
rewmie 3y ago
> And even then it's probably more like a 20yo F1 car vs a new one. This thread is literally about the decision to buy an M3-based MacBook Pro to replace M2/M1/Intel MacBook Pros. We're talking about hardware launched in the past 4/3/2/1 years. That's hardly "20yo" anything. Also, you failed to provide any concrete, objective reason to buy a M3. None at all. Is it that hard to put together any argument to justify the move?
- paulryanrogers 3y ago
  > That's hardly "20yo" anything. My car comparison was trying to propose an alternative metaphor since comparing a top-of-the-line racing car to a child's bicycle struck me as absurdly out of proportion. Cars are generally maintained and kept in service longer than computers, so I picked 20y out of thin air. > Also, you failed to provide any concrete, objective reason to buy a M3. None at all. Is it that hard to put together any argument to justify the move? My point is for most people there is no justification to move. Unless one has a device beyond repair, so old its software cannot be kept up-to-date, or the very rare need for the latest performance then stick with what you have.

threeseed 3y ago

> My semi-educated guess is that Apple did a whole bunch of user studies and realized there are a lot of people out there Apple has telemetry from macOS. So they knew exactly what percentage of users are still on Intel Macs. And it's low-hanging fruit to go after them then try and convince existing Windows users.

latchkey 3y ago
Telemetry doesn't answer the important "why" question.

JohnBooty 3y ago

For the same reason professional mechanics in F1 don't use shitty tools to work on their cars. They also probably don't buy new wrenches every time new wrenches are released, if their current wrenches are completely sufficient and not holding them back in any way.

latchkey 3y ago
> if their current wrenches are completely sufficient That's a fantastically entirely subjective opinion.
- rewmie 3y ago
  > That's a fantastically entirely subjective opinion. That's the point: objectively, there is absolutely no concrete reason that justifies replacing a MacBook bought in the past 3 or 4 years with the M3 ones. None at all. In fact, it boggles the mind how anyone could justify replacing any MacBook pro with a M3 one by claiming "pros don't use shitty tools", as if MacBook Pros packing an Intel core 7/M1/M2 suddenly became shitty laptops just because Apple released a new one.
  - georgespencer 3y ago
    > That's the point: objectively, there is absolutely no concrete reason that justifies replacing a MacBook bought in the past 3 or 4 years with the M3 ones. None at all. Again, what you mean to say is that _you_ cannot think of a reason that would make _you_ upgrade from a 4 year old MacBook to a new M3 one. > objectively Do you understand that what you say is literally, definitionally, subjective? It's one thing to make primitive and clumsy generalisations, but quite another to be confusing subjectivity and objectivity. > it boggles the mind Starting to believe there isn't a lot of mind to boggle here… > how anyone could justify replacing any MacBook pro with a M3 one by claiming "pros don't use shitty tools" I haven't noticed anyone making this argument, but I know many people who upgrade their tools -- whether computers or otherwise -- to the latest and greatest whenever they can, because working faster and more efficiently is a concrete benefit, and it really would take an inestimable moron to, say, argue that late Intel-era MacBooks can do the same things that M-series MacBooks can.

andrewprock 3y ago

The honest reason is that there is no practical reason to upgrade. The computer works, and despite the various FUD you might read, the attack surface for external attacks is quite small for personal computers. That said, if anyone would like to send me $4000, I will absolutely upgrade to a new 14" Macbook in a heartbeat.

coin 3y ago

> better ergonomics The newer 16 inch MacBook Pros are half a pound heavier than the Intel one.

latchkey 3y ago
I'm weird, I sit on the floor on a cushion with my back against a wall. I have a folding table over my lap that the laptop sits on. The keyboard actually works unlike my old Intel ones with the crappy butterfly. I hardly travel these days, but throwing it in a backpack isn't the end of the world. That said, I was actually thinking ergonomics in terms of performance of development. The thing is so fast that commands complete faster than I can deal with them. My IDE can keep up with me. I can run a ton of apps and it doesn't slow down or glitch. It doesn't get nearly as hot and there is rarely fan noise. The screen is higher quality. The speakers sound better. Magsafe is back! The button for my fingerprint works very well. No more stupid touch bar. Function keys! I could keep going...

VancouverMan 3y ago

I've been holding off on upgrading some older Intel Mac minis I have while waiting for the memory situation to improve, but so far it hasn't. Ideally, I'd consolidate these older systems into one new Mac mini, or even a Mac Studio. I'd like at least 64 GB of memory, at a reasonable price. The latest Mac mini maxes out at only 32 GB of RAM, if I'm remembering it right. I think the latest low-end Mac Studio could be upgraded to 64 GB of memory, but the last time I priced it, this upgrade cost more than I'd been expecting. It also put the overall cost above what I'd prefer to pay. While I'd like to keep using a Mac, it's looking more and more like I'd be better off just building a PC, where I could likely get comparable enough processing performance, but far more memory (and storage) at a lower cost.