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"You will still need API docs" Been free in my IDE since I compiled the code... "E2E integration tests" I can mostly run these on my machine, no need to stan

"You will still need API docs" Been free in my IDE since I compiled the code... "E2E integration tests" I can mostly run these on my machine, no need to stand up a cluster to get it running (bonus points if you virt multiple machines on one and still don't need the cluster for complex distributed scenarios). "you will need some other kind of persistent message queue" var queue = new Queue(); // then sometime later... queue.Save(); // or queue.EmplaceAndSave(); ... queue.Pop(); Trivial and didn't need a server to set it up. Lots of tech stack stuff simply disappears without server boundaries and the like to get in the way. There is other tech you have to deal with, but at the small scales it mostly doesn't apply. Which, you as a dev are usually only working at small, testing scales, so you don't usually need to support it.

tsss 3y ago
> var queue = new Queue(); // then sometime later... queue.Save(); // or queue.EmplaceAndSave(); ... queue.Pop(); Yeah, no... you'll lose data for sure, you'll have race conditions or no cooperative queuing between multiple instances of the application. This is exactly the kind of half-assery that people resort to when they say monoliths are so much less complex than microservices. A good monolith still requires all the same hard decisions about modularity, high-availability etc.
- smaudet 3y ago
  Eh? Default queue implementations come with co-operating queuing out of the box. I suppose you could use some hand-rolled queue with no internal locking, but this is disingenuous. > you'll have race conditions or no cooperative queuing between multiple instances of the application. You're thinking micro-service again here. There's no need to have multiple "instances" at all. Any concurrency is handled internal to the application itself with use of e.g. fibers, threads, etc. A good argument to why monoliths have drawbacks can't be "well its not a microservice". :) > A good monolith still requires all the same hard decisions about modularity, high-availability etc. Never said it didn't. What it doesn't require is all the tech stack to support that over many instances, because there's one instance. A large majority of µServices is just re-implementing what your runtime gives you for free.
  - erik_seaberg 3y ago
    Sure, but even a monolith should store data on redundant hardware before launch, because commodity hardware isn’t completely reliable and neither are datacenters.

tsss 3y ago

> var queue = new Queue(); // then sometime later... queue.Save(); // or queue.EmplaceAndSave(); ... queue.Pop(); Yeah, no... you'll lose data for sure, you'll have race conditions or no cooperative queuing between multiple instances of the application. This is exactly the kind of half-assery that people resort to when they say monoliths are so much less complex than microservices. A good monolith still requires all the same hard decisions about modularity, high-availability etc.

smaudet 3y ago
Eh? Default queue implementations come with co-operating queuing out of the box. I suppose you could use some hand-rolled queue with no internal locking, but this is disingenuous. > you'll have race conditions or no cooperative queuing between multiple instances of the application. You're thinking micro-service again here. There's no need to have multiple "instances" at all. Any concurrency is handled internal to the application itself with use of e.g. fibers, threads, etc. A good argument to why monoliths have drawbacks can't be "well its not a microservice". :) > A good monolith still requires all the same hard decisions about modularity, high-availability etc. Never said it didn't. What it doesn't require is all the tech stack to support that over many instances, because there's one instance. A large majority of µServices is just re-implementing what your runtime gives you for free.
- erik_seaberg 3y ago
  Sure, but even a monolith should store data on redundant hardware before launch, because commodity hardware isn’t completely reliable and neither are datacenters.