4 ms·

That's what happens when there's no competition. Come up with an equivalent product with more RAM at the same price and I'll buy it. Sadly (or perhaps gladly,

by dottjt 3y ago

That's what happens when there's no competition. Come up with an equivalent product with more RAM at the same price and I'll buy it. Sadly (or perhaps gladly, depending on your perspective), there just is no equivalent to a macbook for many people.

linguae 3y ago
Yup, it seems that the "Apple tax" has gone up quite a bit since Apple shifted toward soldered RAM and storage for their products. You get excellent Apple Silicon chips with their performance and energy efficiency, as well as the most polished desktop OS (macOS), but it comes at a steep price, especially at non-base configurations. There seems to be plenty of deals for base-config Macs at places like Amazon and Costco, but if you want 24GB or 32GB of RAM, it seems that no deals can be found; you must pay full price for a custom configuration from Apple. I was a long-time Mac user. I remember when my 2006 MacBook cost less than comparable PC laptops. My last Mac purchase was a refurbished 2013 Mac Pro I purchased from Apple in 2017; since 2021 I've switched to PCs. While I love the configuration choices and expandability of PCs, the operating system situation leaves much to be desired, in my opinion. The shenanigans Microsoft continues to pull with Windows as well as the Sisyphean development cycle of the Linux desktop ecosystem (systemd, Wayland, etc.) makes me peek at Apple whenever there's an announcement, but the steep prices for a Mac configuration that fits my needs are too much for me, and so I remain a PC user.
- dottjt 3y ago
  Definitely the main thing preventing me from moving on from Mac is how bad Windows and Linux is. Around 6 months ago I actually bought a beefy desktop PC to play around with, dual booting both Windows and Linux and they were just terrible. The default keyboard shortcuts on Windows are a joke (not to mention, the lack of an additional modifier key which is present with mac, which makes shortcuts more difficult than it needs to be). Linux on the other hand, was so limited. People then argue that Linux is customizable, but I spent forever trying to customise it and half the time, the modifications literally don't work at all. I assume because there are so many distros and the eco-system is so fragmented that something is almost guaranteed to break.
  - eviks 3y ago
    What is superior about Mac shortcuts? They seem to be just as inconvenient and requiring a rebind on both systems (though given how relatively easy it is for the basics strange it's a barrier to switching)
    - dottjt 3y ago
      Having an additional dedicated modifier key is night and day in terms of creating shortcuts. I don't see how they're equivalent. F2 is vastly inferior to pressing the enter key to renaming a file. Alt + F4 to close a window as opposed to cmd + w. Can you name shortcuts that are more convenient on Windows than on Mac?
      - eviks 3y ago
        > Can you name shortcuts that are more convenient on Windows than on Mac? That wasn't my argument > They seem to be just as inconvenient and requiring a rebind on both systems But they exist: Screenshot with PrtScn (or even Windows key + Shift + S) is better than the 3/4 Mac ones > F2 is vastly inferior to pressing the enter key to renaming a file. It's actually close to objectively better (though not a good one): - Enter is a side-ways-stretch pinky key, so one of the worst keys out there (Backspace is worse since it's diagonal stretch) - F2 is a middle-finger vertical key, so more convenient Besides, this blocks opening files with Enter in the dumb Mac file manager, so add that to the downsides of superior Mac shortcuts
        dottjt 3y ago
        Fair enough. I guess ultimately it comes down to what you're used to and what you prefer. I think more than anything, it's difficult to discredit something that you don't actively use and aren't completely familiar with. Like I'm just saying Windows is shit because it's not Mac, but that's disingenuous because I don't actively use Windows as my main OS. But hey, if you like Windows, use Windows. If you like Mac, use Mac.
d3w4s9 3y ago
I am sure if look closely at Windows laptops you can find plenty of competition. Of course the screen and the speakers are not as good and battery life is shorter, but if you can look over that (and I find most people outside HN don't really care) you can go pretty far with a premium Windows laptop (XPS/ThinkPad/HP EliteBook).

by dottjt 3y ago

linguae 3y ago

Yup, it seems that the "Apple tax" has gone up quite a bit since Apple shifted toward soldered RAM and storage for their products. You get excellent Apple Silicon chips with their performance and energy efficiency, as well as the most polished desktop OS (macOS), but it comes at a steep price, especially at non-base configurations. There seems to be plenty of deals for base-config Macs at places like Amazon and Costco, but if you want 24GB or 32GB of RAM, it seems that no deals can be found; you must pay full price for a custom configuration from Apple. I was a long-time Mac user. I remember when my 2006 MacBook cost less than comparable PC laptops. My last Mac purchase was a refurbished 2013 Mac Pro I purchased from Apple in 2017; since 2021 I've switched to PCs. While I love the configuration choices and expandability of PCs, the operating system situation leaves much to be desired, in my opinion. The shenanigans Microsoft continues to pull with Windows as well as the Sisyphean development cycle of the Linux desktop ecosystem (systemd, Wayland, etc.) makes me peek at Apple whenever there's an announcement, but the steep prices for a Mac configuration that fits my needs are too much for me, and so I remain a PC user.

dottjt 3y ago
Definitely the main thing preventing me from moving on from Mac is how bad Windows and Linux is. Around 6 months ago I actually bought a beefy desktop PC to play around with, dual booting both Windows and Linux and they were just terrible. The default keyboard shortcuts on Windows are a joke (not to mention, the lack of an additional modifier key which is present with mac, which makes shortcuts more difficult than it needs to be). Linux on the other hand, was so limited. People then argue that Linux is customizable, but I spent forever trying to customise it and half the time, the modifications literally don't work at all. I assume because there are so many distros and the eco-system is so fragmented that something is almost guaranteed to break.
- eviks 3y ago
  What is superior about Mac shortcuts? They seem to be just as inconvenient and requiring a rebind on both systems (though given how relatively easy it is for the basics strange it's a barrier to switching)
  - dottjt 3y ago
    Having an additional dedicated modifier key is night and day in terms of creating shortcuts. I don't see how they're equivalent. F2 is vastly inferior to pressing the enter key to renaming a file. Alt + F4 to close a window as opposed to cmd + w. Can you name shortcuts that are more convenient on Windows than on Mac?
    - eviks 3y ago
      > Can you name shortcuts that are more convenient on Windows than on Mac? That wasn't my argument > They seem to be just as inconvenient and requiring a rebind on both systems But they exist: Screenshot with PrtScn (or even Windows key + Shift + S) is better than the 3/4 Mac ones > F2 is vastly inferior to pressing the enter key to renaming a file. It's actually close to objectively better (though not a good one): - Enter is a side-ways-stretch pinky key, so one of the worst keys out there (Backspace is worse since it's diagonal stretch) - F2 is a middle-finger vertical key, so more convenient Besides, this blocks opening files with Enter in the dumb Mac file manager, so add that to the downsides of superior Mac shortcuts
      - dottjt 3y ago
        Fair enough. I guess ultimately it comes down to what you're used to and what you prefer. I think more than anything, it's difficult to discredit something that you don't actively use and aren't completely familiar with. Like I'm just saying Windows is shit because it's not Mac, but that's disingenuous because I don't actively use Windows as my main OS. But hey, if you like Windows, use Windows. If you like Mac, use Mac.

d3w4s9 3y ago

I am sure if look closely at Windows laptops you can find plenty of competition. Of course the screen and the speakers are not as good and battery life is shorter, but if you can look over that (and I find most people outside HN don't really care) you can go pretty far with a premium Windows laptop (XPS/ThinkPad/HP EliteBook).