5 ms·

It's odd then that a single alternative hasn't risen to prominence to serve their original hobbyist market. There are millions of clones out there of course bu

It's odd then that a single alternative hasn't risen to prominence to serve their original hobbyist market. There are millions of clones out there of course but any with a trusted brand name and support behind them?

Paul-Craft 3y ago
I don't know about you, but if one of those clone manufacturers made it as simple to install Linux on their machine and have it not be an utter pain in the ass, that would go a long way toward me wanting to trust them. The problem with the clones, and with clones in general, is that they're never quite 100% compatible. There's always some sharp edge there to cut yourself on. Fix that, and I'll definitely try a non-Raspberry Pi SoC.
- Blackthorn 3y ago
  This is by far the largest problem with the clones. The software story is absolute crap compared to RPi.
- hackmiester 3y ago
  The thing you are looking for can be achieved by buying something on the DietPi hardware compatibility list. https://dietpi.com/ https://dietpi.com/ I personally have had good luck with NanoPi boards from that list.
spamizbad 3y ago
The biggest problem all the Pi-like devices seem to suffer from is poor software and driver support. The only exception seems to be the ones Intel made.
bsder 3y ago
People are both complaining about cost and then complaining that the RPi foundation subsidized the cost of the RPis in order to prevent a viable competitor from emerging. Beaglebone Blacks have existed and been in stock through the entire RPi fiasco. They are almost completely documented unlike the RPis. The boards have full schematics unlike the RPis. You can buy the main SoC unlike the RPis. The boards have lots more IO and some really nice real-time units. You can get the documentation from TI without an NDA. And the BBB even has eMMC so that it isn't dependent upon horrifically crappy uSD cards. And it runs straight up Debian instead of some weird build. I can go on and on. RPi has kicked the end users in the teeth over and over and over and people still won't change. People at my hackerspace are willing to spend a bunch of money on RPi to do Octoprint rather than buying a full blown x86 computer for half the total cost. What the hell do the Beaglebone people have to do to get people to pay attention? Beaglebone Black link: https://www.beagleboard.org/boards/beaglebone-black https://www.beagleboard.org/boards/beaglebone-black
- trothamel 3y ago
  Some modernization would be nice. I like the am335x, and have a product that's been made with it for the past decade - but the am335x is a 32-bit single core processor (with some additions) from 2011, and that's getting a bit long in the tooth.
  - bsder 3y ago
    The Beaglebone people put out new ones, but the volumes were so dismal that they simply weren't worth it. One engineering problem is that the power envelope is kind of tight. While the RPi simply will not work with 5V@500mA, the BBB does. If you bump the frequency, your power supply needs shoot up and you start needing heat sinks. It really feels like the Beaglebone Black got the engineering aspects correct. Shame that even hackers are suceptible to marketing. At this point, being able to use the Beaglbone Black is practically a superpower for me as an engineer. I can buy it. My end customers can buy it. It's real Linux so my end customer can bang on it as required. It's documented, so I can generate the embedded drivers I need and document them. I suspect that with the industrial etherenet built in, the BeaglePlay is about to take on some of that character.
    - techdragon 3y ago
      The issue I’ve had with the BBB is that they always seemed to be a premium cost item. Why am I paying more for something that gives me less compute than a most of the RPi boards. I have one and when I got it it cost me something over $150 AUD, I don’t remember the price exactly but I remember how ripped off I felt, at the time the premium RPi 3 was under $100 AUD I’d the BBB cost me ~$50 AUD I’d be much more keen on them… for all the well outlined reasons. It it just seems to always cost more than I’m prepared to pay for that hardware.
      - bsder 3y ago
        What part of "subsidized by Broadcom to create suckers and exploit them" is not clear? The BBB Bill of Materials is public. What parts of that BOM should they throw out to get to you that $50 AUD target? The AM3359 is $11 in 1K units by itself. This is about what you can get for $50 US without subsidy: https://www.toradex.com/computer-on-modules/verdin-arm-family/ti-am62 https://www.toradex.com/computer-on-modules/verdin-arm-famil...
hypercube33 3y ago
The strong point about Pi in my opinion is the software being simple and solid. It just works and any general software you can imagine has been compiled and installs without a ton of effort compared to general Debian or Ubuntu Linux which a lot of the clones use. Otherwise at this point and prices if you're looking for a low power Linux computer I'd urge anyone over to the big three 1L families like the M7x Lenovo has or HP Elitedesk used machines since they are sub 60w and run circles around basically any single board pc

Paul-Craft 3y ago

I don't know about you, but if one of those clone manufacturers made it as simple to install Linux on their machine and have it not be an utter pain in the ass, that would go a long way toward me wanting to trust them. The problem with the clones, and with clones in general, is that they're never quite 100% compatible. There's always some sharp edge there to cut yourself on. Fix that, and I'll definitely try a non-Raspberry Pi SoC.

Blackthorn 3y ago
This is by far the largest problem with the clones. The software story is absolute crap compared to RPi.
hackmiester 3y ago
The thing you are looking for can be achieved by buying something on the DietPi hardware compatibility list. https://dietpi.com/ https://dietpi.com/ I personally have had good luck with NanoPi boards from that list.

spamizbad 3y ago

The biggest problem all the Pi-like devices seem to suffer from is poor software and driver support. The only exception seems to be the ones Intel made.

bsder 3y ago

People are both complaining about cost and then complaining that the RPi foundation subsidized the cost of the RPis in order to prevent a viable competitor from emerging. Beaglebone Blacks have existed and been in stock through the entire RPi fiasco. They are almost completely documented unlike the RPis. The boards have full schematics unlike the RPis. You can buy the main SoC unlike the RPis. The boards have lots more IO and some really nice real-time units. You can get the documentation from TI without an NDA. And the BBB even has eMMC so that it isn't dependent upon horrifically crappy uSD cards. And it runs straight up Debian instead of some weird build. I can go on and on. RPi has kicked the end users in the teeth over and over and over and people still won't change. People at my hackerspace are willing to spend a bunch of money on RPi to do Octoprint rather than buying a full blown x86 computer for half the total cost. What the hell do the Beaglebone people have to do to get people to pay attention? Beaglebone Black link: https://www.beagleboard.org/boards/beaglebone-black https://www.beagleboard.org/boards/beaglebone-black

trothamel 3y ago
Some modernization would be nice. I like the am335x, and have a product that's been made with it for the past decade - but the am335x is a 32-bit single core processor (with some additions) from 2011, and that's getting a bit long in the tooth.
- bsder 3y ago
  The Beaglebone people put out new ones, but the volumes were so dismal that they simply weren't worth it. One engineering problem is that the power envelope is kind of tight. While the RPi simply will not work with 5V@500mA, the BBB does. If you bump the frequency, your power supply needs shoot up and you start needing heat sinks. It really feels like the Beaglebone Black got the engineering aspects correct. Shame that even hackers are suceptible to marketing. At this point, being able to use the Beaglbone Black is practically a superpower for me as an engineer. I can buy it. My end customers can buy it. It's real Linux so my end customer can bang on it as required. It's documented, so I can generate the embedded drivers I need and document them. I suspect that with the industrial etherenet built in, the BeaglePlay is about to take on some of that character.
  - techdragon 3y ago
    The issue I’ve had with the BBB is that they always seemed to be a premium cost item. Why am I paying more for something that gives me less compute than a most of the RPi boards. I have one and when I got it it cost me something over $150 AUD, I don’t remember the price exactly but I remember how ripped off I felt, at the time the premium RPi 3 was under $100 AUD I’d the BBB cost me ~$50 AUD I’d be much more keen on them… for all the well outlined reasons. It it just seems to always cost more than I’m prepared to pay for that hardware.
    - bsder 3y ago
      What part of "subsidized by Broadcom to create suckers and exploit them" is not clear? The BBB Bill of Materials is public. What parts of that BOM should they throw out to get to you that $50 AUD target? The AM3359 is $11 in 1K units by itself. This is about what you can get for $50 US without subsidy: https://www.toradex.com/computer-on-modules/verdin-arm-family/ti-am62 https://www.toradex.com/computer-on-modules/verdin-arm-famil...

hypercube33 3y ago

The strong point about Pi in my opinion is the software being simple and solid. It just works and any general software you can imagine has been compiled and installs without a ton of effort compared to general Debian or Ubuntu Linux which a lot of the clones use. Otherwise at this point and prices if you're looking for a low power Linux computer I'd urge anyone over to the big three 1L families like the M7x Lenovo has or HP Elitedesk used machines since they are sub 60w and run circles around basically any single board pc