5 ms·

Tech bros still cling to sexist stereotypes, forgetting female pioneers

12 points by Beggers1960 3y ago

Beggers1960 3y ago
Honestly so disheartening that in 2023 the old bullshit views are still prevalent in an industry that has traditionally framed itself as forward thinking and inclusive.
- COOL_DUDE_2112 3y ago
  i still remember one Mozilla intern putting the names of two internship coordinators on a whiteboard, and having folks make a tally mark for which they'd prefer to... "date". (spoiler alert: i don't think they planned on taking either of them on a trip to the pinball museum followed by craft cocktails) it hurt, since i was older than most of the interns, coming from precarity, and felt like the ideals that got me into the space were what caused me to boomerang back to my abusive PhD This was ten years ago -- I was a closeted queer guy given an offer letter to work with someone who quit before I arrived, signed by someone who resigned or was fired prior to my arrival. Not once since has someone offered to have a recruiter speak with me, no attempts at anything but... transparently using interns as temps. To sit all summer, nearly suicidal with worry you'll be forced back to the midwest, having your boss take everyone but you out to lunch over and over and your coworkers angry you told them to not harass folks who are arguably their "boss" in the nontechnical capacity for the summer... it destroyed my trust in the company and sent me down a very dark path. Silicon Valley is only inclusive when forced to, because someone is extremely technical -- and even then, it felt like you had to "know" someone, in a sense I'll avoid spelling out, to get a fair interview. It was a summer I had high hopes for that broke my heart in so many ways... and it happened over ten years ago
david927 3y ago
On one (1%) hand you have loud, prominently-displayed efforts to push back on this; on the other (99%) hand you have the deep morass of horrible behaviors which don't seem to budge. This, in an industry which women played an enormous role in founding. Sickening.
- quantified 3y ago
  Bros are bros. The children are raised and meme'd into it. Culture in the large is super hard to change. And scolding doesn't do it.
  - david927 3y ago
    That sounds way too close to, "Boys will be boys." Culture in companies is set top-down. Setting what's tolerated at a top level is a huge step towards compliance below. Shrugging shoulders isn't a good enough response.
    - quantified 3y ago
      Then I made a mistake in phrasing, I'll own that. I wasn't phrasing that to indicate "oh that's how it should be" but "that's how they will stay once formed". "Boys will be boys" mainly because of bad influences and toleration of their BS as well. In tech companies, the top level in many cases is the bro. Nothing in that article is clear about whether the tech co is FAANG, IBM, Tata/Wipro/etc, or the many many smaller and startup companies, gaming companies, etc. By count of company, most of them will be smaller. And the conpanies founded and run by bros won't change their culture easily. (Data point question: how much has Uber culture changed?) The VCs that fund them may talk the talk but look at their funding decisions, they believe in female founders quite a bit less than males. I will repeat, tell me if you disagree: bros won't change their attitude just because they get scolded.
      - qwery 3y ago
        I'm not sure why you're using the term 'scolded' -- who is doing the scolding? who is being scolded? When you say that ~ scolding won't do it ~ (particularly in this context) you're telling people that they shouldn't even mention that there is a problem, because that's just scolding people and it's apparently pointless. I wanted to point this out because you (correctly) identified tolerance of bad behaviour (in boys, men) as a contributing factor to the sorry state we're in. I agree that the negative attitudes and bad behaviours perpetually on display by men are pretty deeply set by the time they are adults. I don't agree that telling people (particularly boys) that they're doing something wrong is pointless. If you don't stop it, it won't stop.
RetroTechie 3y ago
Upvoted. Subject deserves being brought to attention again & again. Until it's not needed anymore, or heat death of the universe - whichever comes first.

12 points by Beggers1960 3y ago

Beggers1960 3y ago

Honestly so disheartening that in 2023 the old bullshit views are still prevalent in an industry that has traditionally framed itself as forward thinking and inclusive.

COOL_DUDE_2112 3y ago
i still remember one Mozilla intern putting the names of two internship coordinators on a whiteboard, and having folks make a tally mark for which they'd prefer to... "date". (spoiler alert: i don't think they planned on taking either of them on a trip to the pinball museum followed by craft cocktails) it hurt, since i was older than most of the interns, coming from precarity, and felt like the ideals that got me into the space were what caused me to boomerang back to my abusive PhD This was ten years ago -- I was a closeted queer guy given an offer letter to work with someone who quit before I arrived, signed by someone who resigned or was fired prior to my arrival. Not once since has someone offered to have a recruiter speak with me, no attempts at anything but... transparently using interns as temps. To sit all summer, nearly suicidal with worry you'll be forced back to the midwest, having your boss take everyone but you out to lunch over and over and your coworkers angry you told them to not harass folks who are arguably their "boss" in the nontechnical capacity for the summer... it destroyed my trust in the company and sent me down a very dark path. Silicon Valley is only inclusive when forced to, because someone is extremely technical -- and even then, it felt like you had to "know" someone, in a sense I'll avoid spelling out, to get a fair interview. It was a summer I had high hopes for that broke my heart in so many ways... and it happened over ten years ago

david927 3y ago

On one (1%) hand you have loud, prominently-displayed efforts to push back on this; on the other (99%) hand you have the deep morass of horrible behaviors which don't seem to budge. This, in an industry which women played an enormous role in founding. Sickening.

quantified 3y ago
Bros are bros. The children are raised and meme'd into it. Culture in the large is super hard to change. And scolding doesn't do it.
- david927 3y ago
  That sounds way too close to, "Boys will be boys." Culture in companies is set top-down. Setting what's tolerated at a top level is a huge step towards compliance below. Shrugging shoulders isn't a good enough response.
  - quantified 3y ago
    Then I made a mistake in phrasing, I'll own that. I wasn't phrasing that to indicate "oh that's how it should be" but "that's how they will stay once formed". "Boys will be boys" mainly because of bad influences and toleration of their BS as well. In tech companies, the top level in many cases is the bro. Nothing in that article is clear about whether the tech co is FAANG, IBM, Tata/Wipro/etc, or the many many smaller and startup companies, gaming companies, etc. By count of company, most of them will be smaller. And the conpanies founded and run by bros won't change their culture easily. (Data point question: how much has Uber culture changed?) The VCs that fund them may talk the talk but look at their funding decisions, they believe in female founders quite a bit less than males. I will repeat, tell me if you disagree: bros won't change their attitude just because they get scolded.
    - qwery 3y ago
      I'm not sure why you're using the term 'scolded' -- who is doing the scolding? who is being scolded? When you say that ~ scolding won't do it ~ (particularly in this context) you're telling people that they shouldn't even mention that there is a problem, because that's just scolding people and it's apparently pointless. I wanted to point this out because you (correctly) identified tolerance of bad behaviour (in boys, men) as a contributing factor to the sorry state we're in. I agree that the negative attitudes and bad behaviours perpetually on display by men are pretty deeply set by the time they are adults. I don't agree that telling people (particularly boys) that they're doing something wrong is pointless. If you don't stop it, it won't stop.

RetroTechie 3y ago

Upvoted. Subject deserves being brought to attention again & again. Until it's not needed anymore, or heat death of the universe - whichever comes first.