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// Not all protests exist to further concrete political proposals (ex. suggestions to Hamas). Expressions of mass grief, community solidarity, and elevation of

// Not all protests exist to further concrete political proposals (ex. suggestions to Hamas). Expressions of mass grief, community solidarity, and elevation of an issue which harms your neighbors are all important outcomes for people meeting en masse This too smells like a "luxury belief" to me. If you're actually experiencing the problem, you want to solve stuff. You want to be practical and pragmatic because your ass is on the line -- or die as a martyr while prolonging people's suffering, but hopefully the former. In contrast to that, things like wallowing in "mass grief" and generating a lot of noise and energy in a way that isn't aiming at making anything better is exactly the kind of thing one can easily engage in when shielded from the outcomes and failure on the actual issue.

archagon 3y ago
If anything, glibly dismissing mass protests as "luxury beliefs" is itself a luxury belief.
tech_ken 3y ago
> This too smells like a "luxury belief" to me. If you're actually experiencing the problem, you want to solve stuff This is kind of broad and I don't think it's super fair to what I'm trying to say. You might want to solve stuff very badly, but simultaneously want to hold space for communal grief. There are examples of this all over the place (look at any community response to a mass shooting). Waving that away as "noise and energy" is IMO a kind of tech-bro, solutionist impulse that ignores the very real function that it serves in creating bonds between people or like entrenching a shared culture. Solutions come from coherent political movements, coherent political movements come from people who know and trust each other. Being together, in physical space, airing the same grievances and seeing how many people stand with you is incredibly empowering and an important step in producing the kind of mass movements that bring change. You can call that a luxury belief if you want, but I would encourage you to talk with poor people who actually organize political movements (although maybe you do and we just run in different circles) because I think your mind will be changed.

archagon 3y ago

If anything, glibly dismissing mass protests as "luxury beliefs" is itself a luxury belief.

tech_ken 3y ago

> This too smells like a "luxury belief" to me. If you're actually experiencing the problem, you want to solve stuff This is kind of broad and I don't think it's super fair to what I'm trying to say. You might want to solve stuff very badly, but simultaneously want to hold space for communal grief. There are examples of this all over the place (look at any community response to a mass shooting). Waving that away as "noise and energy" is IMO a kind of tech-bro, solutionist impulse that ignores the very real function that it serves in creating bonds between people or like entrenching a shared culture. Solutions come from coherent political movements, coherent political movements come from people who know and trust each other. Being together, in physical space, airing the same grievances and seeing how many people stand with you is incredibly empowering and an important step in producing the kind of mass movements that bring change. You can call that a luxury belief if you want, but I would encourage you to talk with poor people who actually organize political movements (although maybe you do and we just run in different circles) because I think your mind will be changed.