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Threads Software Limited gives Meta 30 days to stop using the name Threads
- paulddraper 3y ago> Threads - an intelligent message hub provided by Threads Software Limited - was conceived and trademarked in 2012 by JPY Ltd. The service has been actively promoted worldwide since 2014. > From April 2023, Meta’s lawyers made four offers to purchase the domain ‘threads.app’ from Threads Software Ltd. Every offer was declined. It was made clear to Meta’s Instagram that the domain was not for sale. > In July 2023, Meta’s Instagram announced its ‘threads’ social media platform and removed Threads Software Limited from its Facebook platform. > Threads is a Cloud-based service that captures, transcribes, and organises all of a company’s digital messages (emails and phone calls) into one easily searchable database. See also: https://threads.cloud/ https://threads.cloud/ https://www.techspot.com/news/100666-meta-given-30-days-cease-using-name-threads.html https://www.techspot.com/news/100666-meta-given-30-days-ceas... Not familiar with UK trademarks. Is there any way that Meta doesn't lose/settle this?
- metajack 3y agoThis isn't even the first time this has happened. Remember when they renamed Libra? I think they just assume it doesn't matter, and if it does, the settlement will be a blip. It doesn't always work out that way for them.
- WorldMaker 3y agoThe company was founded on it. It was "thefacebook.com" for years as it fought to get the domain name without "the". (Also, there were lots of face books at the time. Claiming "The" was a wild hair that also seemed to win PR for them.)
- paulddraper 3y ago> Also, there were lots of face books at the time. Trademark-wise, "Facebook" and "Book of Faces" are different things.
- riffic 3y agothe term predates the company https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/facebook https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/facebook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_book
- danielvaughn 3y agoWindows Metro
- croes 3y agoSame with Meta
- deaddodo 3y agoI'm just more surprised they didn't just buy out the company outright. That used to be Microsoft's thing...why bother, if I can just "embrace and extinguish" them?
- tivert 3y ago> I think they just assume it doesn't matter, and if it does, the settlement will be a blip. It doesn't always work out that way for them. Yeah, they keep forgetting they still have to follow the law, because society hasn't yet collapsed into a cyberpunk dystopia where big corporations are totally above it.
- tmvnty 3y agoWonder how many offers or emails they sent to https://github.com/meta https://github.com/meta
- darkclouds 3y agoResource Burn. Meta can throw more money at any court case, so if the judge is bent, which happens, it can become a long drawn out process. Personally though, despite having the trademark for a trademark with the word "threads", note lowercase, its also got a logo filed which might complicate the situation. https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00002613458 https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00... Plus they only have a few catagories selected from Class 9. https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/History/1/UK00002613458 https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/History/1/UK00... Personally I would have filed the logo and word seperately to avoid any confusion, otherwise situations like this court case could present themselves, but maybe that is/was the intention when it was filed.
- ranting-moth 3y agoNAL, but based on my armchair expertise it looks like an extremely hard case for Meta. Any actual lawyers willing to chime in?
- rickboyce 3y ago(Not a lawyer, but have gained some working knowledge of UK trademarks.) I don’t think this is totally clean cut. UK trademarks are registered against specific classes and those classes are categorised in families of goods and services. A quick search suggests that this company holds the trademark for the word ‘Threads’ for class 9 (goods) and class 42 (services). You can read the definitions somewhere by searching on gov.uk (or somewhere like https://www.russell-cooke.co.uk/media/bmin5fo0/goods_and_services_classes_for_trademarks_feb_2010.pdf https://www.russell-cooke.co.uk/media/bmin5fo0/goods_and_ser... [pdf]). Meta will almost certainly make the argument that they are not operating in these classes or overlapping with the categories listed for this trademark. Class 42 does not seem to apply here, and for class 9 the Thread trademark lists ‘computer software, software and apparatus for the extraction of business information and knowledge’ which may not overlap. Meta couldn’t also trademark Threads under class 9 (can’t trademark the same word twice in the same class) but just because they can’t secure the trademark does not automatically mean they are infringing on the existing use. They could argue that their use of Threads as a trademark falls solely within something like class 38: Telecommunications services; chat room services; portal services; e-mail services; providing user access to the Internet; radio and television broadcasting. If they could land this then there is no claim against them - their use can coexist with trademark’s registered in different classes. For an app which can be downloaded getting around class 9 could be difficult - so whether they could land and make this stick is far from clear, but Meta have the resources to explore this indefinitely where as the pre-existing user making the complaint may not be able to afford the legal costs to stay the course. Trademarks are messy and subjective and there is much scope for interpretation - even a seemly clear-cut case is anything but predictable.
- anigbrowl 3y agoThe fact that Meta removed Threads Software from FB implies that Meta itself considered there to be a likelihood of confusion between the two. They should lose hard here.
- rickboyce 3y agoI agree that does seem to be something of a smoking gun. And it’s not without precedent to secure an injunction against as US tech company launching a new service - gmail was known as googlemail in the UK and some European countries for several years owing to a trademark dispute (https://www.theguardian.com/media/pda/2010/may/04/digital-media-google https://www.theguardian.com/media/pda/2010/may/04/digital-me...) But sadly a lot of trademark and copyright cases come down to who has the bigger pile of cash behind them.
- dheera 3y agoIANAL but they could also just pull out of the UK, and they have no jurisdiction on Meta in the USA. They'd still be able to have users in the UK, since the UK isn't the type of country that is going to put up a national firewall.
- cmeacham98 3y agoI assume Facebook sells ads to UK business, which is something the UK could stop. They probably also have UK employees but I'm too lazy to confirm that.
- airstrike 3y agoFunny you mention that, because the UK (CMA) ordered Facebook to undo its acquisition of Giphy after it had already closed on the grounds that Giphy might potentially have entered the UK market and competed with Facebook had it not been acquired https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/oct/18/facebook-meta-sell-giphy-cma https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/oct/18/facebook-...
- blibble 3y agoas long as they've traded in the US under that mark they'd be protected? doesn't even need to be registered
- oldtownroad 3y agoThe question is whether Facebook’s use is likely to confuse consumers: software isn’t a category of its own, everything is software now, and this is different software — any context immediately distinguishes the usages (and there’s no reputation for Facebook to be maliciously trying to leverage). I doubt Facebook will lose. The lawsuit is just chancing for a settlement based on it being easier for Facebook to settle than defend.
- moffkalast 3y agoI think UK-wise it's likely to confuse consumers because Threads means post-nuclear wasteland there.
- bee_rider 3y agoThreads: a stark contemplation of isolation and desolation, total population collapse… and I hear there’s a movie with the same name.
- niceice 3y agoFour offers! I'd love to see what those were. Any educated guesses?
- constantly 3y agoNo, but looking at the offering from Threads Software, it was probably the most value Threads Software founders were ever going to extract from the company. It’s like the skit in The Office where the Washington school wanted to buy Ryan’s company purely for the name WUPHF. Now Threads Software is going to have to deal with mountains of legal expenses which they will only recoup if they win (though they likely would eventually win, to be fair).
- chadash 3y agoThey might be able to find a lawyer to take this on contingency. Meta has very deep pockets and will pay plenty of money just to save the embarrassment .
- petepete 3y agoI can't really see how they won't. Microsoft were forced to rename SkyDrive to OneDrive by BSkyB, a company with less in common with them than Meta/Threads Software Ltd.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- PaulHoule 3y ago"Threads" always seemed like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Part of the brilliance of Twitter was the name, and part of the insanity is that Musk gave that up for the most generic of generic names that might seem cool to a 5 year old.
- Obscurity4340 3y agoI wonder if any psychologist or mental health professional has done an analysis of Musk's `X` obsession... I wonder if its in reference to the variable x since it can be anything he assigns it? Its definitely a common narcissistic trait. Let it be so, lol
- gustavus 3y agoClearly it's because he is offering to bankroll a supra-national group of elite soldiers to fight the alien menace that threatens our species and way of life, and he is hoping that "[Musk] has been chosen to lead this initiative. To oversee our first—and last—line of defense. His efforts will have considerable influence on this planet's future. We urge you to keep that in mind as he proceed. Good luck, Musk" - X-COM:Enemy Of Tesla
- Enginerrrd 3y agoI realize this is probably just a joke that isn't intended to actually add much to the discussion, but thankfully actual mental health professionals without an agenda wouldn't dare interpret something so trivial and shallow as that as serious evidence of pathology.
- nahkoots 3y agoI detest Meta as much as the next guy but I can't bring myself to feel bad for Threads Software Limited here. This is what you get when you pick your company name out of a dictionary in an attempt to be trendy/minimalist.
- xboxnolifes 3y ago> This is what you get when you pick your company name out of a dictionary in an attempt to be trendy/minimalist. Like Meta?... or Threads?
- polishTar 3y agoPrecisely. If you chose your product/company name to be a common word in the english language you should expect it to be more difficult to exclude others from using it too. I don't think there's anything wrong with this, it's just the consequence of a non-distinctive trademark. This should apply for both threads software and meta. I'm a bit surprised how many people here have sympathy for companies trying to enforce exclusivity over common names. Let anybody use "threads" if they want.
- nahkoots 3y agoYes-like Meta, or Threads, or Apple, Glean, Element, X, Zoom, etc. If you choose a generic word for your brand name, don't be surprised when a bigger company chooses the same generic word and ruins your SEO. This has happened before. Maybe it's not fair, but it's extremely foreseeable. It seems much easier to me to choose a creative name in the first place than to risk a legal battle wherein you have to prove that really you should be able to use that dictionary word because you thought of it first. As other commenters have pointed out, since Threads (Meta) and Threads (software) operate in different spaces, Threads's (software) claim for exclusivity is tenuous anyway.
- softwarebeware 3y agoShouldn't you feel "bad" for Meta then? They apparently both "picked the name out of the dictionary in an attempt to be trendy/minimalist" _and_ knew about Threads Software Limited before they put the name into use anyway.
- afavour 3y ago* 30 days to give us a giant pile of money
- notwhereyouare 3y agoIf you had read the article, they aren't looking for money. From April 2023, Meta’s lawyers made four offers to purchase the domain ‘threads.app’ from Threads Software Ltd. Every offer was declined. It was made clear to Meta’s Instagram that the domain was not for sale.
- searealist 3y agoThat's called holding out for even more money.
- organsnyder 3y agoThat could just mean that they felt they could get more money if they held out and didn't take the first (or fourth) offer. Totally their right, too, if they're the legal trademark holder.
- lesuorac 3y agoHow much money do I need to give you to go on a decade long cruise ship ride? Sometimes people just don't have a price. It looks like the current guy running TSL is the guy who founded it [1] so I find it entirely likely he's not interested in re-naming his company. [1]: https://threads.cloud/about-us/ https://threads.cloud/about-us/
- j4yav 3y ago-
- personjerry 3y agoBoy have I got a surprise for you: https://www.messenger.com https://www.messenger.com Copyright is different from trademark btw. Trademark is for being recognized as a business entity in a specific area of business.
- MrRolleyes 3y ago[dead]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- rjmunro 3y agoIt's not copyrightable. It's trademarkable. Completely different thing. Just about every rule is different. E.g. anyone can copy trademarks as much as they like as long as they are using them to describe the actual trademarked thing.
- jedberg 3y ago> From April 2023, Meta’s lawyers made four offers to purchase the domain ‘threads.app’ from Threads Software Ltd. Every offer was declined. It was made clear to Meta’s Instagram that the domain was not for sale. > In July 2023, Meta’s Instagram announced its ‘threads’ social media platform and removed Threads Software Limited from its Facebook platform. This looks initially damning, but working in a big enterprise I can totally see how this would happen accidentally. One team would try to make the purchase, knowing that a product launch is coming. Then another team removes anyone using the name "threads" on any of their properties, not having any idea that the first team tried to purchase it.
- philipov 3y agoThat's what's called a Failure of Leadership by upper management, whose job it is to be coordinating these things.
- pityJuke 3y agoI don't even see the first half as particularly damning. Owning a domain name doesn't mean you own exclusive rights for the trademark ---in that space---. Uzi Nissan (who I've just found out died, R.I.P), couldn't demand Nissan stop selling cars with Nissan, just because he owned Nissan.com, and wouldn't sell it. (sidenote: nissan.com is currently inaccessible to me. I wonder what'll happen to that domain, given the aforementioned death). EDIT: I used the words "in that space", was the wrong train of thought there, my bad.
- jedberg 3y agoThat's because Mr. Nissan doesn't sell cars. Here threads is already trademarked in the software space.
- Someone 3y agoEven if they didn’t make any offer before, I would think that’s proof that at least some of their personnel think there can be confusion. Also, why would another team remove “anyone using the name "threads" on any of their properties”, if not after instruction from upper management? Assuming that’s what triggered removal, that’s proof that upper management thinks there can be confusion.
- Tokkemon 3y agoI hate the name "Threads" because all it makes me think about is nuclear war.
- EricE 3y agoMade me think of Dragonriders of Pern.
- andrewstuart 3y agoMakes me think of knitted jumpers.
- queuebert 3y agoI think about POSIX threads, but C is a formative part of my brain. Does anyone else have a general dislike of companies trademarking such generic, common words? It feels very tacky to try to associate themselves with everyday nouns and adjectives in an attempt to place their product in our brains at every opportunity. Might as well block the windows of my house with a giant billboard.
- flkenosad 3y agoYes. Trademarking is dumb in general. It's a power tool for the elites.
- bagels 3y agoApparently this is the title of a movie about nuclear war.
- hotnfresh 3y agoAn exceptionally harrowing one, yep. Content related to it is the first few results if I search for "threads" on Youtube (down a few results, videos mocking Facebook's "Threads" start getting mixed in) Viewable here (consider using the torrent): https://archive.org/details/threads_202007 https://archive.org/details/threads_202007
- GolfPopper 3y ago
- KingLancelot 3y ago[dead]
- andrewstuart 3y agoThreads proves Facebook can’t innovate and has to buy success. Not buying the .com in advance of launch is the most rookie mistake.
- shortrounddev2 3y agoIdk if you've tried threads but personally I like it a ton more than twitter
- Joel_Mckay 3y agoHow they managed to land Trademarks on a common word is impressive. Hard to defend internationally, but impressive none the less. =)
- flkenosad 3y agoSeems like all of these institutions can be bought.
- redder23 3y ago"Meta’s Instagram announced its ‘threads’ social media platform and removed Threads Software Limited from its Facebook platform. " What does that actually mean, they banned the FB account from Threads Software for the sole reason that they wanted to use their name? No offer to rename or anything just straight ban as retaliation for daring not selling the domain to them?
- SillyUsername 3y agoI spy a company about to be bought by Meta. Quick grab some shares!
- declan_roberts 3y agoLol I can't imagine Meta investing much more into Threads at this point. https://www.businessinsider.com/threads-meta-app-decrease-daily-active-users-mark-zuckerberg-2023-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/threads-meta-app-decrease-da...
- joduplessis 3y agoThreads was a dumb idea, clearly pushed by non-product executives. If there were any product people, then wtf were you thinking? You can't expect to waltz in to that arena, zero plan and expect your "Meta" backing to carry you. Especially given that FB has become an absolute mess of a product. Addendum: I recently re-signed-up for FB in 2020 & 3 years later killed my account because of the sheer amount of irrelevant content. Felt like I was watching bad TV.
- paulddraper 3y ago> You can't expect to waltz in to that arena, zero plan and expect your "Meta" backing to carry you. Why not?
- joduplessis 3y agoBecause it just doesn't work that way with relational networks. A user is on FB because their friends are - same with Insta & X. You're not building the next best fridge, you're building a community - and that takes time, effort & appeal. It is exactly why social is so hard & takes so long.
- empath-nirvana 3y agoAfter the initial release, they dropped down to a more stable 100 million DAU, but they've been steadily growing and twitter has been steadily bleeding users. It's a successful product, it's just not a "facebook scale" successful product.
- joduplessis 3y ago100 million? Care to share how you got that number? Last I read it was down to just below 10m. https://gizmodo.com/threads-has-lost-more-than-80-of-daily-active-users-1850707329 https://gizmodo.com/threads-has-lost-more-than-80-of-daily-a...
- ahmedfromtunis 3y ago
- fdasdfsaolk 3y agoLe sigh. Threads is a generic term in messaging and forums (even BBS?) and has been since before Threads Software Limited started in 2014. Just being awarded a trademark doesn't mean it will hold up. Doesn't help that they've apparently let threads.com run since 2019. Slack gets to trademark "Slack" for messaging software. Microsoft doesn't get to trademark "Word" for word processors.
- declan_roberts 3y agoPatents, like war, will always go to the strongest.
- notfed 3y agoI don't get it. Forum "threads" are a well-established, common word. How can you just trademark a core domain word like that? It's like if a bank named itself (and trademarked) "Bank", or like if YouTube renamed to (and trademarked) "Videos". The law shouldn't allow companies to buy rights to already-in-use words. Besides, why would you want to? Isn't it better to have a unique, memorable name?
- s0rce 3y agoI'm going to start a new payment service called "Transfer" everyone else is now infringing.
- tgv 3y agoIt's not about buying rights. You're a company. You call yourself "Threads" (and are the the first to do so). Then you should be able to conduct business under the assumption that your name can't be hijacked, or smeared. Sounds like a basic form of protection to me. It gets abused, probably, like everything, but that's not a reason to stop it. If not, what's to stop anyone from calling themselves Amazon, Apple, Facebook, etc.? I'm sure there are a few vendors who would love the opportunity.
- worik 3y ago> what's to stop anyone from calling themselves Amazon, Apple, Facebook, etc Nothing, but wealth
- laurels-marts 3y agoI wonder what the final offer was worth.
- seydor 3y agoThe only good thing that will come out of Threads
- yalok 3y agoX booted the "x" user from Twitter as well, with no repercussions...
- cheradenine_uk 3y agoGiven the entire company is worth < £200k, I think I'd say "the best of british luck to you". (https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/AVBERv7hZ2ks9pirUBIUILuQVhc3Dk6wLTUubn3w--E/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3BU5NHNIN%2F20231030%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20231030T200556Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjELP%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJIMEYCIQDIu4nV%2BTzcPYTr6Q07MsXqOak3hSEjNY9xsImcDFIpfQIhAPmfCrsKK6Qy1yqBc7PAIXZiplHMij8wtRrYASX%2BFeRrKsQFCNz%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEQBBoMNDQ5MjI5MDMyODIyIgxfgZZEkqVxWtPi27EqmAXUFV%2FryEOuqxKYoBYfPqLflusRu1jWVroHwgKDymefmCF0mMGaTnPHXNFjYL911R2OlZhEPIPKYSTmSAp2B5dbc9SOPvVabm70a6GeOWhCN6j9r00cFEQ9adj4YlkwcjkfALVWYpNHOPJjTrCUDRKnSnn6r6cpp10qbwJm9SzWRNMnaM9%2BJiHOTqx%2F1cE8ZcBEQK%2BFzsfmzGO9S%2B3AUd%2BoKscbHisW0QOYlfFlyoM3Bg%2BF8OmrHlkeuTIfydXE8Ds3KTOTBuyaIT%2F9R2XvovsGPJMfJUZA%2FZiJQj0eVtNeTvsuogz9j8NFz39Eu%2Bya35DCoHnFKXgG1ZeHZsdSES3muQlCJs27ip0xWVSvEmHNx8%2Bw%2BDOeofalN7IrD55AB%2BU7abMgpZNbK7%2FlduteFDcti%2BNnDIqo9jXjMHA%2BRZeAsq0AcdZa0TJaAnkIlRM%2Fap9TpiILTmcmy9w0M7EjMjR64dt2xoCw67LipMS2PVWtgDhg59JLLyy%2Bhpdz2VxLJbqcA%2Byp3P3jMqvbXKMoVbxYrz7omDeVYYhTibu5y0cVojunGQ6sBhUOCztHUzCARTcIkYi%2FuTgGIUJaOy0f950oBXUsjfknbj%2B%2BUijssMqeVX0euhiMZnK9hTHqPOWwnGpne6tco1AorWuhoj0TOmxy0QlOAvvLv%2Bfsuauk41izdwyNqbxAaZuVpL%2BRAnftyajsYjTFxsDRNXqmnnpYxQUX%2B6rGuQRmqs5Esd%2BinxlDoNUCvc3BXPypNxy7uio0d1lwywfn%2BST2D9T8VBAqK24UyJBAzViRqyKUbqMVh9QQVV1OxYSKTErDoTNhhT3D3kgWjgjCFKtF0K5mXHE0SDVRMvpeZGy1TTSXCp67GmC3C%2F9nbpgVDaKVMNzp%2F6kGOrABybVMoXqPoDGZIz75mMeu0PBcdDPvSJe2uFJOIVuMQZcIhhPQmGC%2BS3L3ygjIgSi%2BTUzBFq5krKnPSXtRT838Do%2FxaWiuru9iTpqtM9JO3%2BEsN17FJJpvAckzegjqGgu882jc4ps9AiQxqzfIMIGt%2F6aRN0zkCQrNZzo0Sw8o8HsMIrM9axuqh7DK2ErEYGoMcGeHuAjmpPN7%2F3b6oRBArSvx7%2B6m4MOjc%2FWnFgXgr44%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%2211201996_aa_2022-11-09.pdf%22&X-Amz-Signature=ae2509ea87412647831ac73e517b846f6893d445358de214572140e1d0d4f3f1 https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live....
- kvakerok 3y agoInstagroom knows no shame.