3 ms·

> Huge numbers of people are going to die regardless at this point It would already be happening and we would have noticed.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-07/climate-change-linked-to-5-million-deaths-a-year-new-study-shows https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-07/climate-c... | https://archive.ph/S07av https://archive.ph/S07av https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/climate-change-and-health https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/climate-cha... https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-heat-related-deaths https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indica... https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/07-11-2022-statement---climate-change-is-already-killing-us--but-strong-action-now-can-prevent-more-deaths https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/07-11-2022-statement---... https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/05/1136897 https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/05/1136897 https://www.v-20.org/new-health-data-shows-unabated-climate-change-will-cause-3.4-million-deaths-per-year-by-century-end https://www.v-20.org/new-health-data-shows-unabated-climate-... I am not worried if you don't believe. It doesn't matter if you do. Doesn't matter if I do for that matter. It only matters if people who have big levers do.
- Aachen 3y ago
  I remember when I found out millions die every year from air pollution, including in my own rich 'clean' country where there are no visible smog issues. I still can't believe this isn't common knowledge. It seems to be stuck because it's not new enough to make the news that people watch/read, abstract enough (like dying from smoking-induced diseases) that it's hard to find eyeball-drawing examples, and inactionable (as an individual) in similar ways to global warming so you'd just feel powerless anyway. But collectively we ought to know these things to make good policy decisions :/ It was also hard to believe at first because, if it were so bad, surely someone would have done something. Alas, it's just not sufficiently in the public's, and thus policymakers', perception.
  - leereeves 3y ago
    What's the mechanism here? In other words, exactly how do people die from air pollution? My first thought would be lung cancer, but the WHO says: > Smoking is the leading cause of lung cancer, responsible for approximately 85% of all cases. > lung cancer [caused] an estimated 1.8 million deaths (18%) in 2020 So the 15% of lung cancer deaths that weren't caused by smoking would only account for 300k deaths. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/lung-cancer https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/lung-cancer
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      https://ourworldindata.org/data-review-air-pollution-deaths https://ourworldindata.org/data-review-air-pollution-deaths > Particulate matter – often abbreviated as PM – is everything in the air that is not a gas. These are very small particles made up of sulfate, nitrates, ammonia, sodium chloride, black carbon, mineral dust and water that are suspended in the air that we breathe. > Particles with a diameter of 10 micrometers (10 millionth of a metre) or less can enter deep inside a person’s lungs. But the most health-damaging particles are even smaller. Those with a diameter of 2.5 micrometers or less – abbreviated as PM2.5 – can penetrate the lung barrier and enter a person’s blood system. These are extremely fine particles: 2.5 micrometers is about one-thirtieth of the diameter of a human hair.1 > All studies of the mortality impacts of air pollution consider our exposure to particulate matter. Some studies also consider the impact of ground-level ozone. The death toll from ozone is much lower than that of PM, but it is still considerable: it’s responsible for hundreds of thousands of premature deaths every year. Other air pollutants are rarely considered in global studies.
      - leereeves 3y ago
        That doesn't really answer my question but I was able to find some more info. These claims appear to be based on studies in which PM2.5 levels have been correlated (by statistical models) with increased risks of heart disease as well as respiratory problems. I haven't been able to find anything describing exact mechanisms. But Pope et al [1] concluded that "a decrease in the concentration of PM2.5 of 10 μg per cubic meter is associated with an increase in life expectancy of 0.77 year." For comparison, the EPA's clean air standard for PM2.5 is 12 μg per cubic meter. 1: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe0809178 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe0809178 2: https://www.epa.gov/criteria-air-pollutants/naaqs-table https://www.epa.gov/criteria-air-pollutants/naaqs-table
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Additional citation: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-30/extreme-heat-set-to-increase-heart-attack-stroke-deaths-in-us https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-30/extreme-h... | https://archive.today/VetTd https://archive.today/VetTd (“Extreme Heat Set to Increase Heart Attack, Stroke Deaths in US”) https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.123.066017 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.123.0... (“Projected Change in the Burden of Excess Cardiovascular Deaths Associated With Extreme Heat by Midcentury (2036–2065) in the Contiguous United States”)

toomuchtodo 3y ago

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-07/climate-change-linked-to-5-million-deaths-a-year-new-study-shows https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-07/climate-c... | https://archive.ph/S07av https://archive.ph/S07av https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/climate-change-and-health https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/climate-cha... https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-heat-related-deaths https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indica... https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/07-11-2022-statement---climate-change-is-already-killing-us--but-strong-action-now-can-prevent-more-deaths https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/07-11-2022-statement---... https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/05/1136897 https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/05/1136897 https://www.v-20.org/new-health-data-shows-unabated-climate-change-will-cause-3.4-million-deaths-per-year-by-century-end https://www.v-20.org/new-health-data-shows-unabated-climate-... I am not worried if you don't believe. It doesn't matter if you do. Doesn't matter if I do for that matter. It only matters if people who have big levers do.

Aachen 3y ago
I remember when I found out millions die every year from air pollution, including in my own rich 'clean' country where there are no visible smog issues. I still can't believe this isn't common knowledge. It seems to be stuck because it's not new enough to make the news that people watch/read, abstract enough (like dying from smoking-induced diseases) that it's hard to find eyeball-drawing examples, and inactionable (as an individual) in similar ways to global warming so you'd just feel powerless anyway. But collectively we ought to know these things to make good policy decisions :/ It was also hard to believe at first because, if it were so bad, surely someone would have done something. Alas, it's just not sufficiently in the public's, and thus policymakers', perception.
- leereeves 3y ago
  What's the mechanism here? In other words, exactly how do people die from air pollution? My first thought would be lung cancer, but the WHO says: > Smoking is the leading cause of lung cancer, responsible for approximately 85% of all cases. > lung cancer [caused] an estimated 1.8 million deaths (18%) in 2020 So the 15% of lung cancer deaths that weren't caused by smoking would only account for 300k deaths. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/lung-cancer https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/lung-cancer
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    https://ourworldindata.org/data-review-air-pollution-deaths https://ourworldindata.org/data-review-air-pollution-deaths > Particulate matter – often abbreviated as PM – is everything in the air that is not a gas. These are very small particles made up of sulfate, nitrates, ammonia, sodium chloride, black carbon, mineral dust and water that are suspended in the air that we breathe. > Particles with a diameter of 10 micrometers (10 millionth of a metre) or less can enter deep inside a person’s lungs. But the most health-damaging particles are even smaller. Those with a diameter of 2.5 micrometers or less – abbreviated as PM2.5 – can penetrate the lung barrier and enter a person’s blood system. These are extremely fine particles: 2.5 micrometers is about one-thirtieth of the diameter of a human hair.1 > All studies of the mortality impacts of air pollution consider our exposure to particulate matter. Some studies also consider the impact of ground-level ozone. The death toll from ozone is much lower than that of PM, but it is still considerable: it’s responsible for hundreds of thousands of premature deaths every year. Other air pollutants are rarely considered in global studies.
    - leereeves 3y ago
      That doesn't really answer my question but I was able to find some more info. These claims appear to be based on studies in which PM2.5 levels have been correlated (by statistical models) with increased risks of heart disease as well as respiratory problems. I haven't been able to find anything describing exact mechanisms. But Pope et al [1] concluded that "a decrease in the concentration of PM2.5 of 10 μg per cubic meter is associated with an increase in life expectancy of 0.77 year." For comparison, the EPA's clean air standard for PM2.5 is 12 μg per cubic meter. 1: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe0809178 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe0809178 2: https://www.epa.gov/criteria-air-pollutants/naaqs-table https://www.epa.gov/criteria-air-pollutants/naaqs-table
toomuchtodo 3y ago
Additional citation: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-30/extreme-heat-set-to-increase-heart-attack-stroke-deaths-in-us https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-30/extreme-h... | https://archive.today/VetTd https://archive.today/VetTd (“Extreme Heat Set to Increase Heart Attack, Stroke Deaths in US”) https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.123.066017 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.123.0... (“Projected Change in the Burden of Excess Cardiovascular Deaths Associated With Extreme Heat by Midcentury (2036–2065) in the Contiguous United States”)