6 ms·

Lol, if I wasn't given a raise, I'd agree to everything, and at the start of my presentation say "hi everyone, I wanted to walk you how we got to a half-a-mill

Lol, if I wasn't given a raise, I'd agree to everything, and at the start of my presentation say "hi everyone, I wanted to walk you how we got to a half-a-million dollar savings, basically I spent a day looking at how terrible the original infrastructure was deployed and removed a code test feature that was causing the problems. This was just complete oversight from every aspect of the development, management, testing, and everything. Overall this code is as bad as it can possibly get, and we just launched it. And basically I was told not to say any of this because it makes everyone look bad, so I was to roll this out gradually to make it seem like managers were doing some sort of work." Then drop the mic and walk off stage. Honestly the amount of give-a-fucks I would have lost would have been a lot. And this is coming from someone who's done this for almost 2 decades and cares about his job because bills to pay, kids to feed.

whartung 3y ago
Back in the day I worked at a company that if you came up with some long term cost saving measure, they gave you a bonus of 10% net savings for the first year.
- dugmartin 3y ago
  A co-worker in the early 90s (he was a tech writer) told me of a cost savings device he invented in the 80s at Texas Instruments to fix a process where occasionally a mirror on a very expensive piece of military camera gear got scratched (I think it was during field disassembly). It was basically some forceps with more metal welded on to make them longer and that allowed you access via a different route than where the mirror was installed. TI gave cost savings awards as a percentage of money saved and he did very, very well with that little invention.
  - tehlike 3y ago
    That's a nice incentive.
    - shubber 3y ago
      Also an incentive to sandbag: ship a costly feature, then next quarter ship the savings.
      - SteveNuts 3y ago
        Cloud services could make this really easy to game nowadays
  - soitgoes511 3y ago
    They sure don't do that anymore... At least not at any of the Dallas factories. Even patents reap little money. You practically sell your soul when you join the company and all your ideas are theirs.
    - dugmartin 3y ago
      This was in Dallas, I believe. But this was in the 80s before the Peace Dividend when there was a lot of defense money sloshing around. I met him in Chicago in the 90s and he, and a lot of TI folks, had left Texas as the defense related work dried up. The team I was on in Chicago was working on the flight data recorder for the F-22 which still had funding.
      - soitgoes511 3y ago
        Oh... I believe it.. Times have changed though. They cut back on travel, corporate crédit cards, etc. We would have no less than 2 cost marathons per year of all day meetings.
    - cereal_cable 3y ago
      Sounds like standard operating procedures these days.
- Justsignedup 3y ago
  I would say blanketed bonuses are a bad idea, or I'd make some partnership deals with other engineers. However, this was a pretty clear cut "give this man a medal" situation, in a clearly toxic company. This is why my reaction is what it is. There was an old thedailywtf post about how a company thought they'd incentivize fidning and fixing bugs. Suddenly every engineer had a QA buddy, and they'd make like 50 spelling errors, which QA will find, and enigneering will quickly resolve. They took down the bounty within a week.
  - duskwuff 3y ago
    > There was an old thedailywtf post about how a company thought they'd incentivize fidning and fixing bugs. That might have been this Dilbert comic: https://i.stack.imgur.com/bQOvF.png https://i.stack.imgur.com/bQOvF.png
  - qohen 3y ago
    There's a name for this anti-pattern, the Cobra Effect[0]: The term cobra effect was coined by economist Horst Siebert based on an anecdotal occurrence in India during British rule. The British government, concerned about the number of venomous cobras in Delhi, offered a bounty for every dead cobra. Initially, this was a successful strategy; large numbers of snakes were killed for the reward. Eventually, however, enterprising people began to breed cobras for the income. When the government became aware of this, the reward program was scrapped. When cobra breeders set their now-worthless snakes free, the wild cobra population further increased. (There may be some question as to whether these events actually occurred or not, but there are similar examples of documented pest-control campaigns (and others) on the Wikipedia page[0] where similar things happened). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive#The_original_cobra_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive#The_origina...
    - Justsignedup 3y ago
      ah yes, thanks for that. Yeah I've been looking into the cobra effect in the current youtube adblocking thingy... It certainly got me to use primarily adnausium which fixes the problem since ads are served, just... you know... maliciously clicked on.
- jimmySixDOF 3y ago
  I have seen higher splits than that. You have to remember this is bottom line cost output saving so the 500K if you look at it on the sales side is like completing a +/- $2M deal in terms of net margin added to the business.
- sshine 3y ago
  I did save one company enough money to finance my salary for the year I worked there, just by removing dead servers provisioned but no longer used. Seems like my predecessors were blind to both cost and the past. I felt bad for leaving so soon, but good for not having cost them a dime.
  - slowhand09 3y ago
    AWS architecting class years ago. Awesome instructor said if you want to save money, start deactivating servers. The ones people use... the admins will contact you right away. The others... people started up and forgot about.
- BonoboIO 3y ago
  Can work great, but watch the incentives. Don’t overoptimize a business process and later fix it with a 10% bonus.
- naikrovek 3y ago
  that NEVER happens anymore. and I've only ever heard stories of it, no one I've ever spoken to has ever gotten anything like this. when I have made large improvements like the article/blog describes, I am pulled off of that and put on something far worse, immediately, except without the autonomy. "why can't you succeed here?"
quest88 3y ago
While this feels good to imagine, the social fallout would be disastrous.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  It really depends on your priorities and operating environment, but there are many people who would be leaving anyways if they save the company that much money and were given exactly zero reward, and at that point plenty of people would be happy to burn bridges on the way out. Like I said, it really depends on the environment and your priories.
  - tehlike 3y ago
    Tech is a small circle. Unless it's something obviously wrong, you may want to be at least milder :)
  - quest88 3y ago
    The thing about burning bridges is you don't know when you'll need them. Let's say 5 or 10 years later you're applying to a job where one of these upper-level people now work. How do you want them to remember you? The know-it-all who wasn't a team player and kind of an asshole? Or the engineer who gets things done and has demonstrably shown to land impact and value, an engineer the exec would consider lucky to have? Some of you will say you wouldn't want to work for one of these executives again. But people change, incentives change, the environment changes. Have you ever made a technical decision you later regretted? And maybe you don't work for them. Maybe you're applying to a different company where someone knows these previous upper-level management folks and they ask about you. How do you want that recommendation to come across? "That engineer was an asshole.", "That engineer was amazing, I wish we could have kept them. We made a big mistake by not trying to keep them.".
    - mst 3y ago
      You are -mostly- right but there is also the factor where a specific sort of negative reaction can actually function as a recommendation later. I've definitely missed out on work sometimes due to having a reputation for being about as subtle as a brick to the face with no lemon, but I've also -got- certain pieces of work as a direct result of being criticised and somebody who heard the criticism thinking "if he annoyed that person that way, he's probably serious about doing the right thing." I would, however, suggest that probably I would've done better overall if I'd toned it down a bit.
d3w4s9 3y ago
I'd consider that if I already have a job offer from another company starting next week. Otherwise it is self destruction.
choilive 3y ago
"Got management material written all over him"
grecy 3y ago
I worked for a large telco that operates very, very similarly to the company in the article. About once a year or so one of the stand-out engineers that had the weight of the world on their shoulders would get burnt out and frustrated enough to do exactly what you suggest above. Literally everyone would just look around awkwardly, leave the meeting and never talk about it again. All of middle management already know all of this, the only way they keep their jobs is by never talking about it, and just ignoring anyone that does. The VPs and President only know what those below them feed them.
CoastalCoder 3y ago
Your fantasy resonates. Sometimes I really wish I had F.U.-level savings.

whartung 3y ago

Back in the day I worked at a company that if you came up with some long term cost saving measure, they gave you a bonus of 10% net savings for the first year.

dugmartin 3y ago
A co-worker in the early 90s (he was a tech writer) told me of a cost savings device he invented in the 80s at Texas Instruments to fix a process where occasionally a mirror on a very expensive piece of military camera gear got scratched (I think it was during field disassembly). It was basically some forceps with more metal welded on to make them longer and that allowed you access via a different route than where the mirror was installed. TI gave cost savings awards as a percentage of money saved and he did very, very well with that little invention.
- tehlike 3y ago
  That's a nice incentive.
  - shubber 3y ago
    Also an incentive to sandbag: ship a costly feature, then next quarter ship the savings.
    - SteveNuts 3y ago
      Cloud services could make this really easy to game nowadays
- soitgoes511 3y ago
  They sure don't do that anymore... At least not at any of the Dallas factories. Even patents reap little money. You practically sell your soul when you join the company and all your ideas are theirs.
  - dugmartin 3y ago
    This was in Dallas, I believe. But this was in the 80s before the Peace Dividend when there was a lot of defense money sloshing around. I met him in Chicago in the 90s and he, and a lot of TI folks, had left Texas as the defense related work dried up. The team I was on in Chicago was working on the flight data recorder for the F-22 which still had funding.
    - soitgoes511 3y ago
      Oh... I believe it.. Times have changed though. They cut back on travel, corporate crédit cards, etc. We would have no less than 2 cost marathons per year of all day meetings.
  - cereal_cable 3y ago
    Sounds like standard operating procedures these days.
Justsignedup 3y ago
I would say blanketed bonuses are a bad idea, or I'd make some partnership deals with other engineers. However, this was a pretty clear cut "give this man a medal" situation, in a clearly toxic company. This is why my reaction is what it is. There was an old thedailywtf post about how a company thought they'd incentivize fidning and fixing bugs. Suddenly every engineer had a QA buddy, and they'd make like 50 spelling errors, which QA will find, and enigneering will quickly resolve. They took down the bounty within a week.
- duskwuff 3y ago
  > There was an old thedailywtf post about how a company thought they'd incentivize fidning and fixing bugs. That might have been this Dilbert comic: https://i.stack.imgur.com/bQOvF.png https://i.stack.imgur.com/bQOvF.png
- qohen 3y ago
  There's a name for this anti-pattern, the Cobra Effect[0]: The term cobra effect was coined by economist Horst Siebert based on an anecdotal occurrence in India during British rule. The British government, concerned about the number of venomous cobras in Delhi, offered a bounty for every dead cobra. Initially, this was a successful strategy; large numbers of snakes were killed for the reward. Eventually, however, enterprising people began to breed cobras for the income. When the government became aware of this, the reward program was scrapped. When cobra breeders set their now-worthless snakes free, the wild cobra population further increased. (There may be some question as to whether these events actually occurred or not, but there are similar examples of documented pest-control campaigns (and others) on the Wikipedia page[0] where similar things happened). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive#The_original_cobra_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive#The_origina...
  - Justsignedup 3y ago
    ah yes, thanks for that. Yeah I've been looking into the cobra effect in the current youtube adblocking thingy... It certainly got me to use primarily adnausium which fixes the problem since ads are served, just... you know... maliciously clicked on.
jimmySixDOF 3y ago
I have seen higher splits than that. You have to remember this is bottom line cost output saving so the 500K if you look at it on the sales side is like completing a +/- $2M deal in terms of net margin added to the business.
sshine 3y ago
I did save one company enough money to finance my salary for the year I worked there, just by removing dead servers provisioned but no longer used. Seems like my predecessors were blind to both cost and the past. I felt bad for leaving so soon, but good for not having cost them a dime.
- slowhand09 3y ago
  AWS architecting class years ago. Awesome instructor said if you want to save money, start deactivating servers. The ones people use... the admins will contact you right away. The others... people started up and forgot about.
BonoboIO 3y ago
Can work great, but watch the incentives. Don’t overoptimize a business process and later fix it with a 10% bonus.
naikrovek 3y ago
that NEVER happens anymore. and I've only ever heard stories of it, no one I've ever spoken to has ever gotten anything like this. when I have made large improvements like the article/blog describes, I am pulled off of that and put on something far worse, immediately, except without the autonomy. "why can't you succeed here?"

quest88 3y ago

While this feels good to imagine, the social fallout would be disastrous.

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
It really depends on your priorities and operating environment, but there are many people who would be leaving anyways if they save the company that much money and were given exactly zero reward, and at that point plenty of people would be happy to burn bridges on the way out. Like I said, it really depends on the environment and your priories.
- tehlike 3y ago
  Tech is a small circle. Unless it's something obviously wrong, you may want to be at least milder :)
- quest88 3y ago
  The thing about burning bridges is you don't know when you'll need them. Let's say 5 or 10 years later you're applying to a job where one of these upper-level people now work. How do you want them to remember you? The know-it-all who wasn't a team player and kind of an asshole? Or the engineer who gets things done and has demonstrably shown to land impact and value, an engineer the exec would consider lucky to have? Some of you will say you wouldn't want to work for one of these executives again. But people change, incentives change, the environment changes. Have you ever made a technical decision you later regretted? And maybe you don't work for them. Maybe you're applying to a different company where someone knows these previous upper-level management folks and they ask about you. How do you want that recommendation to come across? "That engineer was an asshole.", "That engineer was amazing, I wish we could have kept them. We made a big mistake by not trying to keep them.".
  - mst 3y ago
    You are -mostly- right but there is also the factor where a specific sort of negative reaction can actually function as a recommendation later. I've definitely missed out on work sometimes due to having a reputation for being about as subtle as a brick to the face with no lemon, but I've also -got- certain pieces of work as a direct result of being criticised and somebody who heard the criticism thinking "if he annoyed that person that way, he's probably serious about doing the right thing." I would, however, suggest that probably I would've done better overall if I'd toned it down a bit.

d3w4s9 3y ago

I'd consider that if I already have a job offer from another company starting next week. Otherwise it is self destruction.

choilive 3y ago

"Got management material written all over him"

grecy 3y ago

I worked for a large telco that operates very, very similarly to the company in the article. About once a year or so one of the stand-out engineers that had the weight of the world on their shoulders would get burnt out and frustrated enough to do exactly what you suggest above. Literally everyone would just look around awkwardly, leave the meeting and never talk about it again. All of middle management already know all of this, the only way they keep their jobs is by never talking about it, and just ignoring anyone that does. The VPs and President only know what those below them feed them.

CoastalCoder 3y ago

Your fantasy resonates. Sometimes I really wish I had F.U.-level savings.