4 ms·

The company firing all previous employees is a risk of a strike. Striking is a negotiating tactic. Tesla's response is hostile negotiation but it appears that

The company firing all previous employees is a risk of a strike. Striking is a negotiating tactic. Tesla's response is hostile negotiation but it appears that the employees agree that what they have is better than whatever else they could get.

diggan 3y ago
> Tesla's response is hostile negotiation but it appears that the employees agree that what they have is better than whatever else they could get. If you're being threatened of being fired for even negotiating ("striking"), would you continue to "negotiate"? Might be that they don't agree they have it better than elsewhere, but the alternative is being fired, so they'll just be fine with the situation as-is.
- Retric 3y ago
  If they are going to fire everyone who strikes the rational choice is to find a new job while continuing to work then quit without notice, preferably in mass.
- tastyfreeze 3y ago
  Expecting a company to just bow to all demands from unions is unreasonable. Losing your job is a risk of striking. That should be known going in. If you aren't willing to lose your job by striking you shouldn't be striking. Threats are negotiation. The union threatened to strike. The company let the union know what their response would be.
  - diggan 3y ago
    I'm not sure how familiar you are with employment laws in Sweden, but you cannot just fire people willy-nilly, you need to have "Objective grounds for dismissal" in order to fire someone. For example, you are not allowed to fire someone because they're participating in a union, as a employer you'd be setting up yourself to get sued if you do this. Question is, what "participating" actually refers to. One could make the case that striking is just a part of normal participation in the union, while one could also make the opposite case of course. In the end, seems it'd be up to the courts to decide.
    - livrem 3y ago
      There is a right to strike in the Swedish law as well. As long as the strike is legal (has to be a union involved and follow certain procedures) the employer definitely can not fire anyone. And the union in a case like this is paying all the employees 100% of their salaries while it is ongoing, for however long it will take.
  - fl7305 3y ago
    In Sweden, the union can blockade a company that they are "negotiating" with. That means that all other unions will refuse to work with that company, and this goes for both suppliers and customers of the blockaded company. No more transportation services, buying parts, getting service people to show up when your equipment is broken, delivering your goods to customers, etc. So, being blockaded is a risk which should be known going in.
jacquesm 3y ago
Sweden isn't the USA. You can't just fire people like that, especially not for exercising one of their fundamental rights.
- vasdae 3y ago
  Of course you can fire them, as long as you can afford it.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    No, you can't. The courts would annul such termination.
    - vasdae 3y ago
      Which will make the managers bully them until they leave.
      - diggan 3y ago
        Luckily, union membership is widespread in Sweden and they'll most definitely help you with this. Fun fact: managers have their own union in Sweden as well! ("ledarna", literal translation: "leaders") And as the other commentator mentioned, you'd most probably lose your position as the company if you participate in bullying, and if your union finds out, you'll most likely get kicked out of the union as well.
      - machiaweliczny 3y ago
        This is called mobbing and you will get removed from manager position ASAP if someone can collect slightest proof (in EU)
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        Not happening. Not unless said manager wants to be in a whole lot of trouble.
    - tastyfreeze 3y ago

diggan 3y ago

> Tesla's response is hostile negotiation but it appears that the employees agree that what they have is better than whatever else they could get. If you're being threatened of being fired for even negotiating ("striking"), would you continue to "negotiate"? Might be that they don't agree they have it better than elsewhere, but the alternative is being fired, so they'll just be fine with the situation as-is.

Retric 3y ago
If they are going to fire everyone who strikes the rational choice is to find a new job while continuing to work then quit without notice, preferably in mass.
tastyfreeze 3y ago
Expecting a company to just bow to all demands from unions is unreasonable. Losing your job is a risk of striking. That should be known going in. If you aren't willing to lose your job by striking you shouldn't be striking. Threats are negotiation. The union threatened to strike. The company let the union know what their response would be.
- diggan 3y ago
  I'm not sure how familiar you are with employment laws in Sweden, but you cannot just fire people willy-nilly, you need to have "Objective grounds for dismissal" in order to fire someone. For example, you are not allowed to fire someone because they're participating in a union, as a employer you'd be setting up yourself to get sued if you do this. Question is, what "participating" actually refers to. One could make the case that striking is just a part of normal participation in the union, while one could also make the opposite case of course. In the end, seems it'd be up to the courts to decide.
  - livrem 3y ago
    There is a right to strike in the Swedish law as well. As long as the strike is legal (has to be a union involved and follow certain procedures) the employer definitely can not fire anyone. And the union in a case like this is paying all the employees 100% of their salaries while it is ongoing, for however long it will take.
- fl7305 3y ago
  In Sweden, the union can blockade a company that they are "negotiating" with. That means that all other unions will refuse to work with that company, and this goes for both suppliers and customers of the blockaded company. No more transportation services, buying parts, getting service people to show up when your equipment is broken, delivering your goods to customers, etc. So, being blockaded is a risk which should be known going in.

jacquesm 3y ago

Sweden isn't the USA. You can't just fire people like that, especially not for exercising one of their fundamental rights.

vasdae 3y ago
Of course you can fire them, as long as you can afford it.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  No, you can't. The courts would annul such termination.
  - vasdae 3y ago
    Which will make the managers bully them until they leave.
    - diggan 3y ago
      Luckily, union membership is widespread in Sweden and they'll most definitely help you with this. Fun fact: managers have their own union in Sweden as well! ("ledarna", literal translation: "leaders") And as the other commentator mentioned, you'd most probably lose your position as the company if you participate in bullying, and if your union finds out, you'll most likely get kicked out of the union as well.
    - machiaweliczny 3y ago
      This is called mobbing and you will get removed from manager position ASAP if someone can collect slightest proof (in EU)
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Not happening. Not unless said manager wants to be in a whole lot of trouble.
  - tastyfreeze 3y ago